PATIENT posting pictures on Facebook

RNfaster · Jul 31, 2013

Interesting.
I went to a a "Code Gray," (violent person) overhead page and was the first male staff member there. And was the ONLY staff member there for over five minutes. There was absolutely nothing I could do to calm down the situation of people screaming, yelling, accusing nursing staff of this/that/etcetera, and it was obvious that all of the perpetrators knew that I was outnumbered.
For my personal protection, I took out my phone camera and started video taping the incident.
Immediately the situation came to a halt. One of the perps started saying, "He's not allowed to tape us, it's a HIPPA violation!" and screamed it out loud. No one did anything but they all remained quite civil as there was now evidence being collected.
The outcome?
I was persecuted by the house supervisor because of the statement by the visitor about HIPPA crap. I told them that my personal safety was in doubt and I was alone...you can do whatever you want with that, but I stand by my evidence collecting method.
Nothing became of it. I was right. But the kicker? I turned on the phones flashlight by mistake and NOT the video camera. There was NO recording going on and there was NO evidence collected.
Our geriatric security came hobbling along after I had calmed down the situation. They were part of my cross-examination team that felt that I WAS THE WRONG-DOER.
Screw hospitals. Screw management. Do what you feel is right and keep your personal safety paramount.

Wow...your experience is thought-provoking. Consider the increasing numbers of law enforcement officers that are being outfitted with cameras to record their day-to-day interactions with the public. --These cameras help ensure that protocols are followed.

You are right that hospital workers are generally forbidden to record patients on their cell phones. But it is very interesting that your seeming to record served as a deterrent to further escalation in behavior. Maybe security and/or nursing units should be outfitted with some sort of recorder to be used in such cases and permission to do so in such situations....or better yet, overhead "big brother" cameras...

tryingtohaveitall · Jul 31, 2013

The last two hospitals I have worked at have policies forbidding pictures or videotaping being done of the staff unless they give permission. They have involved security and even the legal team when visitors/families haven't complied. Now once it's done, I imagine getting the photos removed would be a more difficult matter.

mongo73 · Jul 31, 2013

We as a society have created this situation. Technology is developing faster and faster,due to the publics ever-growing thirst for faster electronic devices. Unfortunately, laws and rules are made to protect persons after a problem is encountered not before.

imintrouble, BSN, RN · Jul 31, 2013

I've vacationed in places where snapping a picture, and accidentally including a local, will have that local loudly demanding compensation.

Demand compensation. :uhoh3:

Emergency RN · Jul 31, 2013

Photography for personal and or commercial purpose, and property rights, can often overlap, however their legalities are different. This is aside from any patient privacy issues, which is another ball of wax. Simply put, in general, no one has the right to take or make any recordings of any kind while they are on your property without your permission. Thus, if we applied this same property rights rule in a hospital, no patient or visitor has the right to record anything without the permission of the property owner (ie the hospital). It doesn't matter that the patient is taking only a picture of himself in the privacy of his or her own room. If he's within the confines of property that belongs to another, he needs permission from that other person (or legal entity, in this case, the hospital). This has nothing to do with HIPAA.

Oh, and a note to imintrouble; your post made me recall an incident I encountered while touring through Guilin, China, way back in the early 1990's. I was riding by boat on the picturesque Li River, about to dock at Guilin, when I took a picture of the dock as we neared. I saw that one particular man had taken immediate notice of me, as he suddenly got up from his sidewalk squat and began moving quickly to our anticipated point of disembarkation. As he arrived there first, there he stood, waiting for me as I got off the boat. He approached me and quite boldly stated (through our tour guide interpreter) that he saw me take a picture of him, and for that I needed to pay him compensation. I listen attentively as the tour guide carefully and politely explained what the man wanted. I then locked eyes with him and all the while told the guide to translate word for word; I explained that I had saved for years for the air ticket to come from America especially to take a picture of this beautiful dock in Guilin, and just as the boat approached with the lighting perfect for my prize winning photograph... 'HE' BUTTED IN HIS UGLY ASS FACE INTO THE PICTURE AND RUINED EVERYTHING!!! Therefore, I needed him to repay me, the price of my air ticket, my film AND for the monumental loss of this once in a lifetime opportunity. He stared slack jawed at the tour guide for a moment, and then back at me; then shook his head and wagged a finger, but quickly retreated back into the crowd as the other listening natives roared in laughter at his expense.

MunoRN, RN · Jul 31, 2013

Photography for personal and or commercial purpose, and property rights, can often overlap, however their legalities are different. This is aside from any patient privacy issues, which is another ball of wax. Simply put, in general, no one has the right to take or make any recordings of any kind while they are on your property without your permission. Thus, if we applied this same property rights rule in a hospital, no patient or visitor has the right to record anything without the permission of the property owner (ie the hospital). It doesn't matter that the patient is taking only a picture of himself in the privacy of his or her own room. If he's within the confines of property that belongs to another, he needs permission from that other person (or legal entity, in this case, the hospital). This has nothing to do with HIPAA.

Sort of. A private property owner can have whatever rules they want, and can ask you to leave the property if you don't follow them, or not allow you on the property in the first place, but it's not illegal to take photos on private property without permission. If you've been asked to leave for not following the property owner's rules you can be charged with trespassing, but you can't be charged with taking photos without permission of the landowner.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 31, 2013

It used to be that if someone took a picture, it languished on their camera's roll of film for ages and only saw the light of day when friends came over to look at their photo albums. That was relatively safe. Now, you can have your picture taken without your knowledge and posted on the internet for all the world to see. Often, it will be tagged with your name.

In the 1980s, I left my abusive husband, changed my name and moved thousands of miles to get away from him. No one knew my forwarding address except my parents, and they were under strict instructions not to divulge it EVER. I was lucky -- I got away, and in the intervening years he's hopefully lost interest in me. (Or if I'm really lucky, he's died or is at least too infirm to make good on his threats to kill me if I left him.) I turned down opportunities to write for publication in order to keep that man from finding me, lost contact with relatives and friends I thought I'd be in contact with forever and even gave up my NAME. All that effort could have been been for absolutely nothing if one careless acquaintence published a picture of me on Facebook -- especially if they tagged it.

FaceBook is evil and ought to be abolished. At the very least, there should be rules to keep people from being identified on-line without their consent.

SaoirseRN · Aug 1, 2013

I once had the daughter of a pre-op urology patient photograph me and a coworker applying his anti-embolism stalkings, and me starting his IV. This was pre-Facebook (or at least, before Facebook became mainstream), and they did ask permission first, but I wouldn't have been pleased had she just started clicking away without asking.

Emergency RN · Aug 1, 2013

At MunoRN, IIRC, if said property owner told you to stop taking pictures (or signs advising that photography is not allowed) while you're on his property, and one disregards him and continues to do so, then its considered trespassed because one violated the conditional property access.

Having said that, most hospitals have general rules that disallow recording devices without written permission from the hospital. I think this stems from the obvious potential for liability, so it then becomes a blanket rule with exceptions only granted on a case by case basis. In my institution, if we see someone taking photographs or video, we're instructed to tell them to stop and ask them to delete the files. If they fail to do so, our standing policy is to have security ask them to delete the recorded files and then escort them off the premises. If they refuse to leave then security will call the police and have them charged with trespass.

From my experience, most people generally cooperate and stop when you ask them to. I've only had to call security once when a guy kept doing it repeatedly when he thought that no one was looking.

MunoRN, RN · Aug 3, 2013

At MunoRN, IIRC, if said property owner told you to stop taking pictures (or signs advising that photography is not allowed) while you're on his property, and one disregards him and continues to do so, then its considered trespassed because one violated the conditional property access.
Having said that, most hospitals have general rules that disallow recording devices without written permission from the hospital. I think this stems from the obvious potential for liability, so it then becomes a blanket rule with exceptions only granted on a case by case basis. In my institution, if we see someone taking photographs or video, we're instructed to tell them to stop and ask them to delete the files. If they fail to do so, our standing policy is to have security ask them to delete the recorded files and then escort them off the premises. If they refuse to leave then security will call the police and have them charged with trespass.
From my experience, most people generally cooperate and stop when you ask them to. I've only had to call security once when a guy kept doing it repeatedly when he thought that no one was looking.

This is where the distinction between it being illegal to take photos on private property and it being just a rule of the property owner is so important. You can tell someone, and force them if necessary, to leave your property if they are taking photos without their permission, but you can't force them to delete pictures. Too often the distinction is missed and security or other staff will illegally confiscate a device used to take photos, this is theft and often assault as well. Remember that there is no legal authority to require someone to delete photos taken on private property (although you can ask them to voluntarily) or to confiscate the device.