New Nurse/Old Attitude

[Ruby Vee]

[color=#0c0b62]it must be summer again -- all the posts from newer graduates who have just started new jobs and are convinced that their new colleagues are being mean to them. then they proceed to tell us that they're not contributing to the problem -- they barely say anything at work, yet they're "approachable and friendly -- and it's entirely the fault of their colleagues who are bullies. and a bunch of other newer grads jump on the thread, proclaiming how awful it is that nurses eat their young, and how everyone knows that old nurses are mean to newbies. next it will be the "they're all jealous because i'm so much younger and more beautiful" posts. [color=#0c0b62]

[color=#0c0b62]at the same time, there's a post decrying the unfairness of it all that the chatty, social nurse gets the job when the quieter nurse with the better gpa (who is convinced that she is the better nurse) doesn't get hired. as one of the quieter ones, i can see her point -- sort of. i'm beyond lucky that i started my career when there was a shortage, because i probably wouldn't get hired now. i'm actually shy, although probably none of you who read my posts would believe that.

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[color=#0c0b62]the thing is, hiring managers hire those people they'd like to see at work every morning. especially when it comes to new grads -- we can teach you how to be a nurse; but we cannot teach you how to be the person we enjoy working with. so the social person is more apt to be hired than the quiet person. male or female, great school versus ok school. fabulous gpa versus just barely got through -- managers are going to hire the person they can chat with. whether that's fair or not, that's just the way it is.

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[color=#0c0b62]if you're quiet and shy and you managed to get hired, that's great. congratulations. you've got your work cut out for you because in addition to learning how to be a nurse, you now have to learn how to get along with your new colleagues.

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[color=#0c0b62]you might be there for the patients, to do your job and not to make friends. but the fact of the matter is that nursing is teamwork, and it's hard to feel as if you're part of a team (or for others to feel that you are) if you're not friendly with your coworkers. that means you have to be prepared to chat with them. i've seen posts from newbies who were incensed that their older colleagues asked them personal questions such as were they seeing anyone or how old their kids were. probably all their colleagues wanted was some basis for chatting. politics and religion aren't very safe topics, but nearly everyone likes to talk about their kids.

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[color=#0c0b62]so you're working at a new job, and because you're new, you make mistakes. most of us understand that, and when we're not stressed out by the overwhelming pressure of keeping our patients safe and cared for while orienting you, we're understanding. however when we point out your errors and you are quiet or defensive, it appears to us that you don't get it. you could hurt someone if you don't get it right. we need for you to get it. if we point out a few errors and you don't seem to appreciate the seriousness, we may get more strident when we point out the next error. hence the complaint from the newer nurse that "they're acting like i killed someone when no one was harmed." that's not the experienced nurses being nasty to a newbie. that's the experienced nurse trying to elicit the proper appreciation of an error. usually.

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[color=#0c0b62]i'm not saying that there is never an experienced nurse being nasty to a newbie . . . but i am saying that it doesn't happen nearly as often as i see it complained about. when you think about it, i'm older than the parents of the last few orientees i've had. when their parents point out errors, they probably roll their eyes and complain about how unfair mom or dad is being. (just like we did when our parents came down on us.) it's not that far from complaining how mean the experienced nurses are. fortunately, i've been blessed with truly smart newbies with great attitudes. some of the attitudes i've seen on this board, though, aren't nearly as good.

[dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN]

For someone who spends so much time complaining about how older nurses are unfairly painted with a broad brush as being mean/lazy/incompetent, the OP managed to make sweeping generalizations about:

new nurses

the younger generation

the state of nursing education

and, for some odd reason, quiet people

all in one post!

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

Tis the season!

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

im a new nurse too, i work in a nursing home and there are honestly more thibgs broken than i can fix..if other new grads would be willing to work, appreciative of a new job, questioning doctor's orders by correlating cause and effects of medications, humbly asking for avice etc just that drive to be a good nurse , then maybe new grads would have a better reputation..

So, it's your understanding that it's your role as a new grad to come in and "fix" everything we "old" ( I'm 29) nurses are doing wrong? Don't you see this is exactly what drives us crazy??

I get so tired of all the posters (not necessarily you) who come on here moaning about how impossible the med pass is in LTC, and how they can't finish on time and how the only reason all the seasoned nurses finish on time is because they "cheat" and "don't care anymore".

I swear, it's like some struggling new grads equate their slowness with their being more caring and thorough or something. Newsflash: you're slow because you're new and still learning! And maybe I'm *not* faster because I'm some meanie who dosent care about my pts as much as you do. Maybe (just maybe) I'm faster because I am an experienced, battle hardened nurse, and you're not!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

you can't blame all the new grads, just as you can't blame all the old nurses. some new grads are great and some are not. some old nurses are mean and some are kind. i think it is pretty evident that in nursing, we do not always treat each other well. i hear the gossip, i try to stay out. as a fairly new grad i can tell you there are a couple of eat your your young type of nurses on my floor, but fortunately there are also plenty of kind helpful ones. in the beginning there were two biddies that went out of their way to be nasty while getting report, and i can tell you it took a little time to learn how to handle them. i see them do it to all the newbies. as a new employee though, it is hard to try to learn the job, deal with the stress, and try to fend off all the girl drama at the same time it can really be overwhelming. i don't think it is ever fair to blame the victim or generalize that it is all the new grads fault. learning the job is hard enough, it should not also be a shark tank with fresh meat. i think we all see how we as women treat each other, and we can all agree it is not great sometimes. i don't know why we have to make work harder for each other. i'm thankful for the great group i work with.

i was waiting for this one. it's never ever fair to blame the person who is finding it difficult to get along with everyone at her new job, but wait! it is fair to blame women. it's because we're mostly women! i get it! another misogynist heard from.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

ruby, i think your post is spot on and i agree with you 100 percent. you've shared your views are new grads and what could be done better, now i'm asking for advice on how to deal with preceptors who truly are non-productive and down right nasty?

in over three decades, i can count on my fingers the number of preceptors i've encountered who are downright nasty. i've encountered orientees who complained that their preceptors were just nasty to them, but in most cases what you have is two people who communicate differently and neither is able to (or willing to) adjust to the other person. i know this flies in the face of what most new grads believe these days, but it's up to you (meaning the generic "you", not you, personally) to fit into the work environment, it's not up to the work environment to accommodate itself to you.

in the event that you do run into a preceptor who is downright nasty, just shut up and do it her way -- unless her way is going to actually kill someone. (i'm thinking of the thread where the student thought it was up to her to educate the experienced nurses re: the wearing of gloves. not wearing gloves is nasty and it isn't best practice, but the person most at risk from the practice is the experienced nurse who isn't wearing them.) most bullies back down when you show them you have a spine. at least, most old school bullies. we seem to be growing a whole new crop of bullies who are just now in nursing school or new graduates and that seems to be a different animal entirely.

the vast majority of the time, the "nasty" preceptor is someone who isn't great at teaching, has an orientee who is difficult to teach or who is under so much stress that teaching is overwhelming and falls by the wayside. that could be because the assignment is unreasonable, because her father is dying, because her kid just got drunk and wrecked the family car or because her arthritis is acting up and she's in so much pain she can barely stand up. today might be a miserable day with her, but tomorrow you might learn a ton. suck it up and get through today because it'll be worth it tomorrow.

while i won't say there aren't any bullies out there, i don't think there's a common as people like to complain about.

[beeker]

i was waiting for this one. it's never ever fair to blame the person who is finding it difficult to get along with everyone at her new job, but wait! it is fair to blame women. it's because we're mostly women! i get it! another misogynist heard from.

men do not behave this way. ever work in a male dominated profession? i did for 10 years. i can say, from experience, men do not behave this way.

you did do some pretty broad generalizing on new grads in your post. you tend to side against them in your responses. not sure what newbies did to get on your badside, but it is obvious they have.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

For someone who spends so much time complaining about how older nurses are unfairly painted with a broad brush as being mean/lazy/incompetent, the OP managed to make sweeping generalizations about:

new nurses

the younger generation

the state of nursing education

and, for some odd reason, quiet people

all in one post!

Talking 'bout my generation. Hope I die before I get old

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

alas, tothepointlvn, your hope is in vain: you probably won't.

personally, as my sweetie and i approach elderness (he's already there, by definition) the prospect of hospitalization scares the bejaysus out of me.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

Yeah Mick Jagger proved that LOL.

I think though when it comes down to it when your being new and precepted is a softer blow to your ego to transfer some of your inexperience inadequacies to your preceptor by labeling them as "mean". Also me personally I don't know quite how to balance being submissive enough to be respectful and open to learning but not so much so that I'm perceived as being stupid.

[PennyWise]

Aaaaaaaaaand look who's beating this dead old horse again....BIG surprise >.

I too become a bit annoyed with the "new nurse vs veteran nurse" issue playing out like a passive aggressive rendition of The Hatfields and The McCoys. I SWEAR TO YOU, I've known nurses who talk about it so much, I have no other option than to believe it has more to do with lacking enough creativity to invent a new topic than with actually being upset with other nurses.

Mind you, this is not targeting anyone, its just me verbalizing what went through my head when I was a new nurse and I found myself having to deal with more than my fair share of veteran nurses who were very difficult.

I came to the conclusion that the problem was not going to go away. Veteran nurses complained about the new nurses and vise versa, bedside nurses insist management is clueless (and vise versa), ICU nurses acted as if everyone else was against them (and vise versa)....................

The passive aggressiveness and reliance on false pride was too much to comprehend sometimes. I wanted to be DONE with nursing because of it. Id say it took me about.........meh, 3 months to lose my respect for the people contributing to the problem (too many to count). So what am I to do?

Since the problem wasn't going to go anywhere, I figured I had two options:

1. Learn to cope with it better, in a way that did not make me a contributor to the problem. This involves being assertive, mature, charismatic and patient care driven.

Or

2. Get out of nursing. The problem is here to stay. If I can't learn to cope, I'll become bitter and burnt out. In the end, I'll become a part of the problem.

Im still a nurse so its obvious which direction I took. It was not easy though. This is not one of those problems that can be solved via self awareness. Its a journey that I am still walking through, but compared to how I was before, Im all the better for insisting I make the change. Humility and tact have a new place on my list of qualities I respect in others and try to emulate.

Its a good thing I made the change too. I find myself on the other end of the spectrum now and WHOA, some of these new grads on my current unit make me want to go straight into a rage. You name the new nurse stereotype and I will name three of them that do it. And I mean, THEY DO IT, its not me being a bitter "new nurse eating old nurse" and imagining things.

1. One locks herself in the BR for an hour at the beginning of the shift, after punching in, and fixes her hair. Once even tried to do this before getting report.

2. They pick one of their own out of the crowd every morning to make the daily "coffee run" to Starbucks. This person leaves the unit, is gone for over an hour, and whoever is privileged enough to be working beside her is left answering their call lights. Oddly enough, they are very careful about making sure this is not one of them.

3. When the manager announced there were too many people not doing their share of weekends and that the hospital scheduling policies were going to be more strictly enforced, these new nurses spent a month complaining: "I have a social life ya know, this is beyond unfair" and "Can't someone else cover these weekends. There are plenty of other nurses who don't do anything all that exciting on the weekend" (yes, they meant going out and drinking, hence anyone who doesn't like to spend Fri and Sat night drinking until they puke should be ok with working every weekend).

I could have this list up to triple digits, without any effort. So, I guess the point is, even if you are tired of the dead horse being beaten (as I am), sometimes you just see things/meet people that push you to your limit.

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

Had to literally SNORT out loud at the image of some idiot hiding in a supply closet. I wonder if she hides in the supply closet at her new job at Wendy's?

Otherwise I have no dog in this fight. I don't precept new grad RNs and don't have occasion to interact with them, and never really did once I was no longer one myself. When I was still working bedside, the units I was in would never have considered new grads. I've been away from that game so long I don't have any insight to it.

But I must also go on record as saying that I pretty much always agree with Ruby, for she is wise.

[Aeterna, BSN, RN]

Now having 2 years of experience in the real world of bedside nursing, I can see both viewpoints - I'm new enough that I remember very clearly what it was like being a new grad, but I'm experienced enough to have seen two waves of new grads after me arrive on our floor and watch them handle the chaos of a busy medical unit.

I don't think it's quite fair to paint everyone with such broad brushstrokes. There have been great seasoned nurses and not-so-great seasoned nurses. I still remember the first two RNs to orient me as a new grad. They were very patient with me and did their best to show me the ropes - because I did not train at any of the local nursing schools, this hospital was completely new to me, including the equipment (i.e. different IV pumps and vital signs machines), so the local new grads were already ahead of me in that respect and it took longer for me to familiarize myself with everything.

However, I'm well aware that there were times when I was struggling to keep up with the fast pace of the unit. I only found out about this later, but there was this one difficult day where I broke down into tears at the nursing station, feeling completely overwhelmed with my assignment. Apparently one of the nurses told another nurse something along the lines of, "Well, I guess she's not cut out for nursing." How mean-spirited. Did she ever ask if I needed help? Did she offer any suggestions to help me with time management? Did she even know how difficult my patient assignment was that day before passing judgement? Because, looking back, even how I am now, I'd have difficulty managing what I did that day. I was fortunate that the nurse educator came around, told me stories of how she herself struggled as a new nurse while I dried my tears, and then helped me re-organize the tasks I needed to do and how I could do them efficiently and then sent me on my way.

As for the new grads, it's the same - there have been great new grads and not-so-great new grads. We've had several who are so bright and eager. The learning curve is so steep on our floor because of the sheer diversity we see in our patient population, but several new grads have stepped up to the plate and taken those challenges on brilliantly. They sometimes even say things that make me go, "Wow, I didn't know that!" (although, I have these moments with the seasoned nurses, too!) And then there are...well...the new grads that make me shake my head and wonder how they got through nursing school. Seriously, we've even had one fired because she just wasn't able to do her job properly despite lots of help.

I'd like to wrap up my already long post but in the end, I'm not really sure how to word it. I guess, if I had to sum up my general idea, it's to be open minded. Everyone comes in with different experiences, different personalities, different ways of teaching and learning, and different ways of coping with the stressful environment we all work in. But in the end, we're all a team and we need to be supportive of each other, young or old, experienced or inexperienced.