New CNA needs to be fired, but is union.

Nurses Relations

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We got this new CNA on our unit. Given she is pretty good, not the BEST one but does her job. her attitude is the worst i have ever seen. I can't even talk about the stuff she says without fuming. She has had many many complaints by coworkers and even patients/families about her attitude.

Our unit always pairs one nurse with one CNA. She was paired with me one day and i'm a pretty new nurse (she HATES new nurses the most). Anyway, i had a patient's whose heart rates were in the 180's, wasn't symptomatic. So i paged the doctor, i'm talking with the doctor on the phone writing down orders to put in. She is standing behind me in a very very loud voice "Lets Go Caitlyn. Off the phone now, our patient needs to get cleaned up. He "shat" everywhere" (Yes, she swore outloud) keep in mind her voice is INCREDIBLY loud. She is clapping her hands in my face, while i'm on the phone with the doctor taking orders. I held my finger up trying to tell her to wait until im done. She gets up in my face and goes "Oh no you didn't" YES im still on the phone trying to take orders. The doctor on the other end is furious because he heard all of this. He was like "Who is that? give me her name. i am talking to your manager."

It isn't just me, she has done this countless number of times to everybody. She does it to doctors, she does it to ther CNA, she does it to nurses. She will get inches from your face and always clap "LETS GO!!! WE NEED TO DO THIS NOW." She talks crap about nurses all the time. She HATES nurses and she says it outloud. If you are a nurse, you are crap in her book. It doesn't matter how nice and how helpful you are. If you have an RN behind you're name, you are hated and she will let you know.

"Why do you all complain about 'being so busy' all you do is pass medications. It doesn't take a genious to do that." She is very overweight and always says things like "You just didn't invite me to go with you guys cause you hate fat people."

She swears CONSTANTLY. I once asked the CNA i was with to get a set of vitals while she was getting the patient up in the chair (set of orthos). This mean CNA i'm talking about goes "Are your legs broken Caitlyn? You are capable of doing it yourself" All i asked was for my CNA to get a blood pressure while she was planning on being in there anyway.

She has been talked to many many many times, and it only fuels the fire in her. she will tell of my manager just as much as she does me or anyone else. My manager is at her wits end because there isn't anything she can do about it since the CNAs are union.

Is it really that hard to fire her?? Is there something we can do to get rid of her?? She has GOT TO GO!!!! Seriously, it gets worse everytime you work with her. I can't work with her...i can't do it anymore.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

They can be fired. But...you need a manager that needs to step up and deal with the Union. Depending on the Union...a grievance hearing are a real pain in the derriere! They shout and bluster to get their way acting like petulant children with intimidation tactics. They have that great show of aggression like a charging elephant all puffed for a good show. It may also be that this employee has already taken action against the company and they ARE afraid of her.

I had a unit secretary years ago that walked the tightrope of getting fired for over 20 years. She would get to the point that the next step is termination....she would suddenly sprout wings and a halo and become the model employee never stepping over that "immediate termination" line. She would always play her "ace in the hole" that she was being discriminated against because of....blah, blah, blah...I told her once that it didn't matter if she had pink elephants coming out of her ears or was be beamed down from space with antennas....the bottom line was that she did not perform her job properly (late, sick calls, missing orders...ie: doing every other one on long page) and therefore she is on her progressive discipline/behavioral/improvement plan.

We ended up being on good terms and she kept her shenanigans....to a minimum.

You ALL need to call a meeting with your manager and tell her that this is impossible to work with and something has to be done. Tell her that you ALL are at the end of your ropes with her. See what she says...tell her you will have to soon go to HR to try to stop her aggressive behavior for you all are done being bullied.

In the meantime......do not put up with her antics. Document, Document, Document. ALL unions have progressive discipline plans. Always maintain professionalism to a fault. A distant superiority, you are the licensed personnel. Always remain the one in charge. Be sure she understands that you are keeping book. For example...when she refused to take that patients temp who was medicated with Tylenol...state in hearing range...on 05/14/2013 @ 1230 while counting narcs with Mary...Jane refuse to retake repeat temp on 304...stating quote...."get it yourself, is your arm broke?" .

I would find out if there is a documentation form to fill out from HR and document document document....now be ready for retaliation...but if you give someone enough rope they will hang themselves.

I will be difficult I will not lie....you can also be firm....no nonsense. Inform this aid that while you are happy to help you have responsibilities that require your attention as you are the one with the license and you are delegating this important task to her capable hands and you are sure that she would not want you to write her up for insubordination. You will all have to be on board. People like this thrive on intimidation and being the biggest junkyard dog with the loudest bark....but they always don't have the biggest bite.

Without your managers assistance the odds of getting her fired is slim. You may have to make peace with yourself....ignore this person and not be a push over......learn to ignore this.....person as much as possible and make sure she isn't with the same nurse everyday. These people usually only engage those they feel they can intimidate....because it's easy and they are inherently lazy. Stand up for yourself in a calm commanding manner.

((HUGS))

Specializes in Medical Surgical.

I also agree to document and if you manager does nothing take it to her manager. I am a student and actively seeking a NA/AP role and would never dream of speaking to a nurse like that. And that CNA is really lucky no one has just reached out and smacked her when she is clapping in people's faces, especially when you all are on the phone with the doctor. That is absurd and would really try my temper... Good luck to you!

This is by far the most outrageous account I have heard in some time. The manager needs to get a grip, and follow through with a process that could (and I say COULD) be in place for termination.

In order for that to be done, the manager needs to familiarize herself with the union contract. What does the language regarding discipline say? Does it allow for gradual termination (meaning verbal, written, written with a plan for improvement, then termination?)

If she is new, then perhaps her probationary period has not lapsed.

If the manager declines to take action, then HR needs to.

Sometimes if it is a matter of patient safety (and by interrupting when you are taking orders from an MD could consitute this) then immediate termination can and does occur.

Unfortunetely, any information or advice that you receive here can not change anything if you are a staff nurse and in no authority to do anything about it.

I would again say something to the manager, ask that she take corrective action, and if she refuses or doesn't then go above her to the DON.

Union contract language varies widely.

But this situation as you describe it is over the top.

Specializes in Med-Surg.

I agree with other posters. But I think that on top of keeping your own, impartial, objective documentation, you should also fill out a separate incident report or write up for every single insubordination event. For instance, temperature not being taken in a timely manner after Tylenol for fever? Incident report. You delegated to the CNA, it was not done. Clapping in your face while you are getting orders from a doctor? Write up for insubordination. Keep a copy for you, and a copy to place right on the manager's desk. Heck, maybe even have the manager sign off on the fact that she received it.

2 things I can think of. Well, 3 I guess. 1)Manager gets sick of having dozens of reports on her desk every day and takes some action. 2)Manager remains non-confrontation and ineffective, you have documentation to prove she was aware and didn't act. You take it next step up on the food chain. Rinse and repeat. 3)No one does anything. I wonder if this kind of toxic environment could be reported to OSHA? :p Perhaps threaten harassment suit against this lovely person?

Keep us posted!

I agree with Esme I would definitely let her know that I was keeping documentation on her actions. This might make her pause in her reactions to your requests. I am so sorry that you have to work with someone so outrageous. I cannot believe how some people behave at work. No job I have ever had would put up with a person like this, but maybe I have been lucky so far.

Specializes in Med Surg.

I have a question. I'm curious about patient reports. Have any patients reported her antics? I believe you said in an earlier post that she is rude to patients as well?

I'm surprised that if she IS receiving negative patient reports that this would not spur some action.

OP, you also mentioned that she is new. If she is still in her probationary period, which is indicated in the Union Contract, she may not have union representation at this point at all. A general guideline is 90 days. BUT it DOES vary.

Specializes in Med/Surg & Hospice & Dialysis.

Our manager would take the doctor's complaint pretty seriously. We can also write an incident report based on " patient complaint". I would find an incident report that addresses insubordination. Our reports go to the manager and risk management. Getting a higher up department involved may get some action.

Specializes in Med Surg.
Our manager would take the doctor's complaint pretty seriously. We can also write an incident report based on " patient complaint". I would find an incident report that addresses insubordination. Our reports go to the manager and risk management. Getting a higher up department involved may get some action.

This too! I was wondering if you had given the physician with whom you were speaking her name when she so rudely interrupted you, and what became of that?

Yes, thanks for the advice everyone! This situation has gotten out of control with her. She is incredibly hurtful at times. I personally think she hates her life and the only way she can feel good about herself and her job (you can tell she hates her job) is to bring others down. For example, she is always always talking about how nurses are "idiots monkey could do our job." She will flat out say it, out loud at the nurses station. "All you guys do is pass pills. I don't understand why you go to school."But yet, anytime a patient asks her a question she doesn't know the answer to she will get the nurse. I want to be like THIS is why i went to school. It is degrading to my degree and everything i worked for. I worked hard to get where i'm at, and to have a coworker bring you down is hurtful.

She recently switched to our weekend (GREAT! i get to work with her more...) and she was sitting at the nurses station charting some vitals. She looks at the other CNA next to her and goes "What was i thinking switching to THIS weekend? you ain't got nobody good on this weekend." That was the whole reason she switched to my weekend group was because there were "no good nurses on her other weekend." she despises nurses, it's pathetic. Adores the CNA's because the "CNAs run the hospital and don't need nurses. They only need to train CNAs to pass medications."

Yea...beause you TOTALLY know how to give IV medications, start IV, run a code, operate ventilators and know what to do when someone is in respiratory distress. Clearly nurses are not needed. Psht!

I guess i will take all your advice and start documenting situations that happen with her with me and things i observe.

Specializes in Med-Surg.
Yes, thanks for the advice everyone! This situation has gotten out of control with her. She is incredibly hurtful at times. I personally think she hates her life and the only way she can feel good about herself and her job (you can tell she hates her job) is to bring others down. For example, she is always always talking about how nurses are "idiots monkey could do our job." She will flat out say it, out loud at the nurses station. "All you guys do is pass pills. I don't understand why you go to school."But yet, anytime a patient asks her a question she doesn't know the answer to she will get the nurse. I want to be like THIS is why i went to school. It is degrading to my degree and everything i worked for. I worked hard to get where i'm at, and to have a coworker bring you down is hurtful.

She recently switched to our weekend (GREAT! i get to work with her more...) and she was sitting at the nurses station charting some vitals. She looks at the other CNA next to her and goes "What was i thinking switching to THIS weekend? you ain't got nobody good on this weekend." That was the whole reason she switched to my weekend group was because there were "no good nurses on her other weekend." she despises nurses, it's pathetic. Adores the CNA's because the "CNAs run the hospital and don't need nurses. They only need to train CNAs to pass medications."

Yea...beause you TOTALLY know how to give IV medications, start IV, run a code, operate ventilators and know what to do when someone is in respiratory distress. Clearly nurses are not needed. Psht!

I guess i will take all your advice and start documenting situations that happen with her with me and things i observe.

Lol, I would ask what it says about her that she is a certified monkey's assistant next time she throws that out. Better yet, go online, print up a bunch of sample NCLEX questions and have her answer them.

What a terrible environment you have to work in! So sorry that you have to deal with someone like that! :(

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