Bullying - What is it?

Nurses Relations

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A lot of threads discuss whether or not bullying is rampant. I want to give some examples of behaviors and I am interested in people to tell me which one(s) consist of bullying, rude behavior, or social abuse.

(1) A nurse grabbing a sheet from her orientee's hands, stating in a raised voice that "its too sloppy, give it to me" so that she can fold it herself over a patient.

(2) A nurse not letting her orientee go to lunch or cover their orientee's lunch because the orientee had to catch up on documentation, even though the nurse had taken lunch herself.

(3) A nurse loudly commanding their orientee in the nurses station to finish their documentation before doing anything else because they don't want to get out late.

(4) A nurse asking another nurse "why did you needlestick yourself?" after an accidental needlestick that requires the nurse to go to occ health.

(5) A nurse asking another nurse during ICU handoff why they didn't obtain an order to replete their patients potassium of 3.8.

These are real life situations that I have experienced or observed. In my opinion, the majority of them demonstrate the height of rudeness. The last one demonstrates someone suggesting that a nurse didn't follow their patient's labs to replete their normal potassium level to one that was more normal.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

I don't find the OPs original examples to be straightforward examples of bullying.

I do find them to be descriptive of a rude person with questionable interpersonal skills.

Following that, in reading the responses and the OP's opinion of them I detected some attitude on the part of the OP that may contribute to the way she is treated by the preceptor...assuming that such is not isolated to online forums.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Ugh sad that these have actually happened, RNdynamic you posted something in "im sure to get flamed for this" about insecure preceptors on power trips just trying to get their egos filled. All of these exemplify those to me. These preceptors would not have acted the same way toward something they considered their equal or even their superior. All these actions are dominated by a nurse on a power trip.

I'm not sure I understand this. Are you intimating that a nurse on orientation -- specifically a new grad on orientation -- is an equal or even a superior to the experienced nurse tasked with precepting her?

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Specializes in Med-Surg.

In reply to the OP... I think we need more context. Were they all from the same person? In my opinion, most of your examples depict rude behavior, but each example itself is not bullying. Combined, and all from the same source, they might be, I don't know. Does it matter? Would it feel better to call it bullying? And if so, why?

I guess what I am saying is that it doesn't matter if you label it as bullying or not. If this behavior is directed at you, and you find it offensive, then instead of being concerned over labeling, you should be taking action to correct it. First, if you have issues with these behaviors, then you need to directly take it to that person. You have received some good examples of how to reply to these situations by other posters. If that doesn't get you anywhere then go higher up. Be factual and descriptive of the events you are concerned about. If that doesn't get you anywhere...

Then keep in mind that orientation does end. Take it as a learning experience in dealing with difficult people. In nursing there will be worse people that you have to deal with, and it helps to hone your interpersonal skills to get through these interactions. You will get rudeness/unprofessionalism from nurses, doctors, PCT's, RT, family, patients, everyone. You can't change the actions of others, you can only control your reactions. Your priority isn't your feelings, it's in ensuring that the patients are receiving appropriate care.

I will add that #5 isn't offensive to me at all. It is the duty of the oncoming nurse to ask questions like that. It might seem annoying since that is a normal value, but there may be another reason behind her asking. What's so hard about just saying, "that's a normal value, is there a reason you think they need replacement?"

As for lunch... I do think you should get a lunch. I think everyone should be able to take lunch and go to the bathroom when they need to. It's not that difficult to make time, unless there is an emergency. Your preceptor should be able to cover for you. If she refuses, ask the charge nurse. And request to be paid for the time you did not go to lunch.

The fact that we have two self-indulgent people in this thread who (1) have a signature proclaiming that they are a "crusty old bat" and (2) another who proudly proclaims that they are a "fat, old nurse" speaks volumes about the role models these types might expect. It's just sad; there's nothing good about being crusty or fat (I don't care as much about old) and I wouldn't want any nurse with those traits being a polestar for our profession.. Do you see recruitment ads for any profession talking about awesome any of those traits are? Probably not.

I don't know that any of normal people aspire to be crusty or fat, but hey... what do I know. So what is expected by advertising that? Congratulations on being a fat, crusty gasbag? .

I know you have already been told this, but this post sounds really bad. Really, I wish you hadn't gone there. There is nothing wrong with being old, fat, or crusty. Why did you have to bring up weight as an example of why someone shouldn't be a role model? Seriously? You come and complain about bulling then say THAT? Not the most professional and polite behavior from you. You are coming off as incredibly defensive, sarcastic, in general just really acidic. And it really makes me rethink your interactions. I think you need to do a little more soul searching to see if you might be a big part of the problems you are having.

You can't control the actions of others, only your reaction. Your reaction in this post was very inappropriate, rude, and hurtful.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.

​@Karou: Thank you for a very thoughtful, well-worded post. I fear you advice will go unheeded, but I appreciate what you wrote. For someone who is a relatively new nurse, you have a level of maturity that is refreshing to see, and it will serve you well in your career.

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Perhaps that was the wrong position to take. Maybe we should have started a thread about being bullied by younger nurses.

Ahh, amateurs. We've been bullied by real pros. They weren't successful at ruining our tender sensibilities either, but this? Nothin.' :roflmao:

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I'm not sure I understand this. Are you intimating that a nurse on orientation -- specifically a new grad on orientation -- is an equal or even a superior to the experienced nurse tasked with precepting her?

I'm saying that all nurses are equal in the sense that were all just people with the same title/profession/degree(sorta). Someone having more experience than another person does not make them a superior human being deserving of more respect. Respect is not like trust. Trust is something that for me people have to earn but respect for me is something people have to loose. I give everyone equal respect until they give me a reason not to. In the post you referenced I'm saying that preceptors on a power trip treat new nurses like inferior people degrading them in front of staff and patients all in the name of "teaching". Or that's the excuse they use for their poor interpersonal communication skills/power trip. This is because they don't view them as equals, if they did or even as a superior they wouldn't treat them in that manner.

Also on this note is doesn't matter how long you've been doing something there's plenty of new/newer nurses I would trust with my life over a older nurse. For example in my other profession (paramedic) there's theses 'veterans' who've been doing it "longer than I've been alive" who I've seen in action and wouldn't trust with my dogs life. Meanwhile there's these newbies fresh out of school who sure maybe can't intubate as well or get an IV as quickly but I would trust them with my or anyones life over the 'veterans'.

You can suck at something for 20 years but be good enough to fly under the radar and not get fired.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Ahh, amateurs. We've been bullied by real pros. They weren't successful at ruining our tender sensibilities either, but this? Nothin.' :roflmao:

​Then consider yourself fortunate. It certainly wasn't funny to me.

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​Then consider yourself fortunate. It certainly wasn't funny to me.

I'm not saying that all bullying is funny. I did find the quotes from younger nurses with major entitlement issues humorous and not the least bit threatening. That's what I was referring to. Sorry I didn't use my Quotes feature, I'm usually better about that.

As to the person who thought that I was a strong and confident person to resist feeling put-upon by rudeness that some people feel is bullying, well, how do you think I got to this place? I wasn't always older and more experienced. I had to get here. You, anyone, can do that too. I recommend starting.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Float Pool Nursing.
I'm not sure I understand this. Are you intimating that a nurse on orientation -- specifically a new grad on orientation -- is an equal or even a superior to the experienced nurse tasked with precepting her?

Are you intimating that it is okay to talk down to or harshly to a complete stranger for the reason that they are a new nurse and they are on orientation? They are a person too.

All people are equal and deserve the same basic courtesy. Being employed in the same profession as them shouldn't embolden you to behave more rudely to them than you would some random person in your neighborhood.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Float Pool Nursing.
Then you are not as observant as you think you are. (OP)..

MD's are the WORST! when it comes to talking down to each other...however, I have yet to hear them refer to it as bullying, it all comes with the territory especially in a busy academic medical center (speaking as an ICU RN in a large academic medical center) people are busy and short/to the point

also, lets all not labor under the illusion that as a new nurse on orientation we are owed lunch....where did that come from?? Have many times have we missed lunch when we are on our own? sometimes the day gets ahead of you and it is not bullying....

Why is the idea that a new nurse on orientation deserves lunch illusory to you? By federal law, working 8 hours entitles you to a 30 minute meal period. If allowing this creates an issue for patients or employee workload, then the employer is obligated to address it through coverage or staffing.

Plainly, the preceptor should cover the orientees lunch who has not gone to lunch yet. Denying someone lunch in order to create an opportunity to teach them a time lesson management is inappropriate, illegal, and not within another nurse's purview. Find a appropriate method; don't screw with people's lunches.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Are you intimating that it is okay to talk down to or harshly to a complete stranger for the reason that they are a new nurse and they are on orientation? They are a person too.

All people are equal and deserve the same basic courtesy. Being employed in the same profession as them shouldn't embolden you to behave more rudely to them than you would some random person in your neighborhood.

As I've said before -- probably even in this thread -- there are two kinds of respect: that due to all human beings because they are human, and that earned because you are good at what you do, because you're an exemplary human being or for some other reason than just existing. The experienced nurse is worthy of respect from the orientee because the experienced nurse has the knowledge and expertise the orientee is hoping to learn. As employees, they are no where near equal. The experienced nurse can take care of any patient that comes through the door; the orientee can watch and learn but isn't usually all that helpful when the feces hits the fan.

I haven't said anything about being rude or mistreating orientees. I intimated that the orientee is not the equal of the experienced nurse, and whether you like it or not, that remains true.

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As I've said before -- probably even in this thread -- there are two kinds of respect: that due to all human beings because they are human, and that earned because you are good at what you do, because you're an exemplary human being or for some other reason than just existing. The experienced nurse is worthy of respect from the orientee because the experienced nurse has the knowledge and expertise the orientee is hoping to learn. As employees, they are no where near equal. The experienced nurse can take care of any patient that comes through the door; the orientee can watch and learn but isn't usually all that helpful when the feces hits the fan.

I haven't said anything about being rude or mistreating orientees. I intimated that the orientee is not the equal of the experienced nurse, and whether you like it or not, that remains true.

LIke I said in a previous post

"Also on this note is doesn't matter how long you've been doing something there's plenty of new/newer nurses I would trust with my life over a older nurse. For example in my other profession (paramedic) there's theses 'veterans' who've been doing it "longer than I've been alive" who I've seen in action and wouldn't trust with my dogs life. Meanwhile there's these newbies fresh out of school who sure maybe can't intubate as well or get an IV as quickly but I would trust them with my or anyones life over the 'veterans'.

You can kinda suck at something for 20 years but be good enough to fly under the radar and not get fired."

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