The Great Double Standard? - page 7

I would like opinions from the rest of you guys. It seems everywhere I turn that there is this double standard that men nurses should not be providing care for any of women's intimate needs. I am... Read More

  1. by   tbrd450
    Just be consistent across genders. If you accommodate female requests for female (or male) caregivers, then accommodate male requests for male (or female) caregivers. It seems simple enough. However, a double standard does exist. As someone previously pointed out, a male patient who requested a male team was not accommodated. No shift changes were considered. Whereas, the concensus seems to be that the converse of that is always vehemently accommodated and pursued unless truly impossible. Why the double standard? Pragmatically speaking, probably because it is presumed that a lawsuit on the matter would only be coming from the female patient. Juries don't like to award men money for breaches of modesty -- considered frivolous.
  2. by   talaxandra
    Quote from Doog
    Have males being nurses been common place in australia for some time? I thinking their maybe some cultural differences between there and here.
    I don't know how long men have been in nursing here, but my former NUM is in his fifties - he was a midwife before moving into renal, was my manager for a decade, and was NUM at another hospital for around a decade before that, so it's been a while

    As long as the patient's happy, I'm happy for the guys to do any care that I do. Just under half the doctors are men and few people seem to have an issue with them doing things 'down there' - I don't see why it should be so different for nurses.
  3. by   GM2RN
    Quote from ruby vee
    i'm not a male nurse, but my husband is. i worked with him for 8 years before we married, and he consistently refused to take care of female patients "within my dating range." (roughly 10 years older than and 10 years younger than him.) if he did have to take care of a female in that age range or younger, he had a female nurse do the "intimate care" or had a female nurse, doctor, rt, cna or whoever present while he did it. he says it's just too easy to be accused of something inappropriate and too difficult defending against it.

    it seems to be that males are less likely to accuse female nurse of inappropriate behavior -- and probably more likely to initiate the inappropriate behavior themselves, if my experience is any guide.

    as a female, i don't have a problem with the occassional female patient asking for a female nurse. but i have a real problem with any male nurse going into the profession, knowing that intimate procedures will be required, and refusing to do them on a segment of the population just because they are men. i am not going to be happy if the male nurses that i work with are going to have me do all of the intimate stuff for their female patients, plus take care of my own assignment. this isn't any different than asking the male nurses to do all of the heavy lifting, which has been complained about on this forum. as far as i'm concerned, if you know that you aren't going to do certain types of care or procedures for your patients, you should find a different profession.
  4. by   GM2RN
    Quote from leslie :-D
    i can assure you, i would not let a male nurse do any sort of personal care on me.
    even though i intellectually recognize that a male is just as qualified, it is an emotional response for me.
    therefore it would not be gender discrimination.
    as it wouldn't be for many people.

    if a male pt expresses discomfort w/me, i do everything in my power to get a male nurse.

    respect works both ways.

    leslie
    I get what you are saying, but at the same time, someone wanting a different nurse based on race could make the same "emotional response" argument.
  5. by   nursemike
    Quote from GM2RN
    As a female, I don't have a problem with the occassional female patient ASKING for a female nurse. but I have a real problem with any male nurse going into the profession, knowing that intimate procedures will be required, and refusing to do them on a segment of the population just because they are men. I am NOT going to be happy if the male nurses that I work with are going to have me do all of the intimate stuff for their female patients, plus take care of my own assignment. This isn't any different than asking the male nurses to do all of the heavy lifting, which has been complained about on this forum. As far as I'm concerned, if you know that you aren't going to do certain types of care or procedures for your patients, you should find a different profession.
    I don't disagree, except that I have come to realize in the course of some other threads that it frequently isn't adequate to simply wait for the patient to ask for a female nurse. If the patient is responsive, I think it's necessary to explain what needs done and ask whether I can do it, and if I have any inkling they might prefer a female caregiver, offer to find one. What amazes me is how rarely it's a problem. I think, many times, just showing a sensitivity to their concerns alleves their concerns.

    I suppose I'm an idiot, but I almost never take a witness. On our occassional peds, I generally won't do an assessment without their parent (or other guardian) present. Which is really dumb, in a way, since I'm waiting for a witness for the (potential) plaintiff. But the peds we get are walkie-talkies, so intimate care has never been an issue.
  6. by   Cul2
    I realize this is an old thread that's starting to open up again.
    I did comment in it a 2 years ago. But reading it again, I came
    across this comment:
    'Try these on for size:
    "I don't want a black nurse." not ok - racism
    "I don't want a gay nurse." not ok - discrimination
    "I don't want a male nurse." oh, that's understandable, and we'll try to accommodate your preferences
    Why is it ok to discriminate based on gender, while it is horrible to discriminate based on other criteria?'

    I was surprised and disappointed at the number of posters who
    agreed with this line of reasoning. A few didn't, and that was good. Here's
    why this line of reasoning is faulty:

    How patients feel about gender care can be extremely contextual. It's
    very often connected to specific procedures and exams. A woman, for
    example, who refuses to have a male nurse take her blood pressure because
    she thinks that men are just not capable of being nurses -- this women is
    prejudiced and practicing gender discrimination. Same with a male patient
    who refuses, for example, to let a female nurse take his oral temperature
    because he thinks women are incompetent. That's discrimination.
    But a male or female patient, who normally would let the opposite gender
    do non intimate, non invasive procedures like the two I mentioned above, --
    but who doesnpt want opposite gender care for, let's say, a testicular sonogram
    or a vaginal exam, these people are not prejudiced and not practicing gender
    discrimination. Thise choices are directly related to patient dignity, respect,
    values, cultures, etc. As most of you have indicated, these choices must be
    respected. Patients who don't want a Black or Hispanic nurses, regardless of gender,
    for anything because they think the race (or gender) is incapable of doing the
    job) these patients are prejudiced and racist. See the difference?
    I do want note one other comment on this thread: "It seems to be that males
    are less likely to accuse female nurses of inappropriate behavior -- and probably
    more likely to initiate the inappropriate behavior themselves, if my experience is
    any guide." First, I think probably, just as many women exhibit the similiar inappropraite
    behaviors with male nurses and doctors. Women communicate differently.
    They're more subtlier, and have different, less overt stratigies
    than men. And men respond differently than women do.
    I would suggest that male nurses and doctors know this and just don't talk
    about it very much. Perhaps they feel less physical threat, yet there is more threat
    to their careers than for female caregivers. Even mentioning it or joking about it
    could get them into trouble. Second, some men are just jerks (like
    some women). If they practice sexual harassment in the hospital they probably do
    it outside the hospital, too. Third, most men won't speak up when they're embarrassed
    and ask for same gender care. Some of these men, because of their humiliation and
    embarrassment, may lash out at the female nurse, or make some crude comments, to
    cover their embarrassment and humiliation. I'm not saying it's right. But that may be
    what's happening. I've actually found this mentioned in some studies, with the suggestion
    that this situation be studied studied more. I don't think it has been.
    Anyway, this has been and apparently cont9inues to be a stimulating discussion.
  7. by   nursemike
    Quote from GM2RN
    I get what you are saying, but at the same time, someone wanting a different nurse based on race could make the same "emotional response" argument.
    Cul2 covered nicely why pt preference based on modesty or similar concerns is different from discrimination on a more arbitrary basis. I'd just like to add, though, that if a patient refuses me because I'm white, I don't have to agree with their logic, but I can't continue to care for them. If they are able to say they don't want me, forcing myself upon them anyway is assault and/or battery. Of course, if a patient refuses to be cared for, by non-compliance or by making unreasonable demands, the patient can be discharged.
  8. by   kool-aide, RN
    as a CNA I sometimes have a similar issue...not with my nurses, but with female pt.'s. although not often, I may have a pt. who does not want me to take them to the restroom or do peri care or whatever, but sometimes I can win the female pt. over with my attitude and personality and get her to trust me, I guess....

    also, sometimes a nurse will ask me to help a male pt. to the bathroom because he is embarrased to have a female nurse help him.. I think it's a little funny.. hehe
  9. by   FLmomof5
    As an OB patient, I had NO problem with a male nurse and he was visibly relieved that I didn't care what gender he was. (All my OBs were men so who cares what the gender of the nurse is!)

    That being said....

    Welcome to our world...(of women and the double standard)....

    Even in 2010: Man + multiple sex partners = stud. Woman + multiple sex partners = whore.

    Dumb blonde doesn't apply to males who are blonde.

    Vocally exhuberant male = Assertive. Same for woman = B**** (pseudonym for female canine)

    Handsome man = intelligence Beautiful female = stupidity

    Male nurse's advantage? Doctors treat them as if they are intelligent!
  10. by   Dixiecup
    Quote from BillEDRN
    I wouldn't "force" care on anyone at anytime...however, I have told patients that I was the only nurse available to do the procedure so they could decide to have me do it or not. I find it interesting that you tried to accomodate a black person's request for a black nurse. If the situation was reversed, a white person asked their assigned black nurse for another, white nurse, would that be OK?
    Sure it would. I don't see the big deal about this. What ever makes the pt more comfortable is all I care about. I just don't see all the controversy.
  11. by   zbb13
    From a religious perspective, I prefer a female nurse to deal with my "female" issues. I chose a female OB/GYN for that reason. When hospitalized, people have few choices, and they suffer much indignity. If they request a female to do personal care, we should respect their rights.

    If you can't find a job in OB/GYN, give it up. An individual with one arm can't be a pilot of a F-16. If you can't accept reality, then I guess you can moan and groan and fight the system.
  12. by   Bhebe55
    I hear women make this complaint all the time:

    men multiple sex partners is a stud
    female is a whore

    they automaticly jump on the double standardc bandwagon but it's their own doing.
    The reason that idea exists is because women have all the power in most sexual relationships when they say "no" it's no. Almost any women on Earth could go out and find someone to have sex with them any day of the week. No man on Earth could say the same. The reason we are "studs" is because we have to "earn" for lack of a better word oursexual partners while women are the ones "giving it away." So as soon as y'all women give up the death grip or power y'all have over any sexual relationship maybe y'all won't be seen as just giving your self away all the time. Also in reality the only people that think y'all are "whores" are other women most men could care less or are happy to get some.
  13. by   GM2RN
    Quote from Bhebe55
    I hear women make this complaint all the time:

    men multiple sex partners is a stud
    female is a whore

    they automaticly jump on the double standardc bandwagon but it's their own doing.
    The reason that idea exists is because women have all the power in most sexual relationships when they say "no" it's no. Almost any women on Earth could go out and find someone to have sex with them any day of the week. No man on Earth could say the same. The reason we are "studs" is because we have to "earn" for lack of a better word oursexual partners while women are the ones "giving it away." So as soon as y'all women give up the death grip or power y'all have over any sexual relationship maybe y'all won't be seen as just giving your self away all the time. Also in reality the only people that think y'all are "whores" are other women most men could care less or are happy to get some.

    :smackingf

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