Random drug tests - page 5

Hi im an LPN in the iowa/nebraska/south dakota area. (yes my city is divided into three states, they are all compact states). I dont do random drug tests at my facility they only do one when you... Read More

  1. Visit  Anna Flaxis profile page
    0
    I haven't said anything about legalizing it. That's a whole 'nuther discussion!
    Last edit by Anna Flaxis on Sep 22, '12
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  3. Visit  roreyn02 profile page
    1
    It should be legalized why worry about wether or not someone smokes a little pot once in awhile? I wouldnt smoke it even if it was legal its not my thing. I dont drink/smoke/do drugs. I often hear people say "I dont someone who smokes a few joints when their off work taking care of my grandma". Well fine im not a pothead so dont worry about me. But what if one day someone says, "I dont want someone who has a few drinks over the weekend to take care of my grandma" If we were to keep people who have a few beers on their time off out of the medical field that would weed out just about EVERYONE. A number of people who work in the medical field are darn near alcoholics during their time off. Im not saying a lot of people or only a few people I dont know so im just saying a number of people. Ive had people come to work at our nursing home who had the smell of alcohol in their breath and leaving empty beer cans in people's rooms. They got rid of him though. But I just think that as long as a person does their job and does it well we shouldnt worry about what they do at home. I may not drink/smoke/do drugs, but theres other things about me that people might find really controversial and just terrible. I play violent video games, I never go to church(im not religious), I might listen to some really crazy rock music sometimes like van halen but these are personal things that work isnt really allowed to dig into. Now if im sitting there at work with my headphones on and letting everyone's beds get wet, skipping out on med pass, or basically just not doing my job cuz I want to listen to music or play a gameboy then I can see how thats a problem. Or if I just call in because I want to sit at home and play video games. But I dont have those problems, and im pretty sure a little bit of marijuana during a person's time off could ever hurt. Just dont drive or work while doing it.
    Anyway.. I am NOT at ALL trying to say that I shouldnt try and enforce a new "no smoking in the car" policy. This is the way of the world, laws are strict on pot and thats how its going to be. Doesnt matter how much I complain. I just find it ridiculous when theres such strict laws against marijuana which has never in the history of mankind ever killed anyone, yet all the judges, police, and the ignorant backwood rednecks got some idea that its ok to pour gallons of alcohol down their throats each week. Prohibition of alcohol was just as dumb as prohibition at all. Too bad Ron Paul probably isnt going to make it, from what I hear he was going to end prohibition of everything and save this country from all the efforts WASTED on the "war on drugs".

    And NO im not PRO drug use. I just feel like we should treat people who do them like they got a problem not like criminals. Rather than deny them employment because they have a drug history we need to work on getting them working again. Blacklisting of people who use drugs only FORCES them into a LIFE OF CRIME! IF you cant work because your BLACKLISTED your forced to deal more drugs or steal cars to make ends meet! Im speaking for people I know whose lives are ruined because they messed up a few times with drug use. They never committed any other crimes and their ruined for it. Now I see myself being very successful compared to them, I dont want to lose what ive earned but I think its unfair.
    I guess ive changed this topic into a politcal one now sorry.
    gypsyd8 likes this.
  4. Visit  gypsyd8 profile page
    0
    I am curious as to why you believe that one cannot fail a drug test from secondhand marijuana smoke. If it is true that the THC content from secondhand marijuana smoke is undetectable, we need to know this based on clinical studies.

    I agree about the moralizing. It is unnecessary, rude, and does not solve any problems or offer any solutions. smoking weed does not automatically make a person inferior. To the people who proudly proclaim "I don't know anyone like that," guess again. You probably do.
  5. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    2
    I actually believe marijuana should be legalized and taxed like cigarettes and get this country out of it's financial trouble it's in right now.....but those profits will probably go into another politicians pocket.

    Facilities are already alcohol testing employees and some nicotine test them and will not hire an employee who smokes tobacco. Tobacco is legal.

    It's not about your family member smoking in your car or home it's about asking them to respect you and refrain from smoking around you for it endangers you job. My husband smokes..he puts his feet on the floor and lights up.....he goes outside when my mother comes to visit because she can't be around smoke. It's respectful.

    I listen to Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath......I went to the last World tour of Zeppelin in 1977, man what a concert. My father thought they were the Anti Christ and the end of the world.....now you hear Led Zeppelin music played for a Cadillac commercial. I have always believed that what ever someone did at home was none of my business as long and the Did their job. But the world has changed.....big brother and big business is in every else's business.

    Is is fair? No But unfortunately life isn't fair. The generation of "Give Peace a chance" is old now and the time of "do your own thing" is no longer popular. We have to change to remain relevant.

    I wish you the best.
    KelRN215 and gypsyd8 like this.
  6. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    0
    Quote from gypsyd8
    I am curious as to why you believe that one cannot fail a drug test from secondhand marijuana smoke. If it is true that the THC content from secondhand marijuana smoke is undetectable, we need to know this based on clinical studies.
    ..
    I do drug screenings 3 times a year at our local high schools. I posted this on Page 5 of this thread. Because kids try to get out of a positive THC urine test, they say yes to the question about being around medical marijuana. However, the levels are significantly different for passive and active. (I miss the smoking smilie). .

    Infrequent (less than twice/week) Smoking: When screening assays of 50 ng/mL or greater are used, urine samples will generally be positive for 1-3 days.
    Regular (several times per week) Smoking: May result in urine specimens testing positive for 7-21 days.
    Chronic (daily) Smoking: An individual who smokes marijuana daily for prolonged periods of time can test positive for 30 days or longer.
    Oral Ingestion: Metabolic profiles in urine samples cannot generally differentiate between marijuana ingested orally versus marijuana ingested by smoking. However, oral ingestion requires approximately three times more THC than smoking to produce similar effects or "highs"; therefore, visual detection of the marijuana in the ingested item would seem reasonable, thus ruling out unknown consumption. Retention time of orally ingested marijuana ranges from 1-5 days.
    Passive Inhalation: In general, routine passive exposure to marijuana smoke will not result in a positive result for cannabinoids in excess of a 50 ng/mL screening cut-off.


    http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com/res...marijuana.html
    Last edit by JustBeachyNurse on Sep 27, '12
  7. Visit  gypsyd8 profile page
    0
    I posted the question in reply to someone before I went back and read the entire thread. In any case, how do we know that a particular employer uses the 50ng/ml cut-off? And why are they doing drug screenings in high schools? Minors cannot give informed consent, are the parents asked permission? Kids have a right to education regardless of what drugs they are using, not to mention a right to privacy. If I found out my daughters high school was making her pee in a cup in front of someone they would have a major lawsuit on their hands. She does not use drugs (no I am not in denial but I talk to my kid quite openly) but its not some bureaucrats business even if she did.
  8. Visit  Jory profile page
    1
    Quote from KelRN215
    I would NEVER allow someone to smoke marijuana in my car. I do home care and my supplies pretty much always stay in my car... someone smoking in my car would mean I would carry the smell with me. In my state, the mere suspicion that a nurse may be under the influence while working (and walking in smelling like marijuana is "suspicion) warrants notifying the board. Nurses in my state are also prohibited from "aiding any person in performing any act prohibited by law or regulation." Allowing someone to smoke marijuana in your car and driving them around while they are doing so probably fits this criteria as marijuana is illegal. I don't know your states laws but if you were a colleague and you walked in to my place of work carrying the smell of marijuana, that would warrant suspicion of marijuana use and I would be required to call the Board of Nursing.
    ...that is not the appropriate step, because a smell is not proof of impairment or even influence.

    You would report it to the employer, who would drug test and if the test result was positive, THE EMPLOYER WOULD REPORT to the board of nursing.

    You don't report anything to a BON unless you have proof. That just clogs their system up with cases that aren't going anywhere, because I can assure you they won't do anything about a "he said, she said."
    gypsyd8 likes this.
  9. Visit  Jory profile page
    1
    Quote from gypsyd8
    I posted the question in reply to someone before I went back and read the entire thread. In any case, how do we know that a particular employer uses the 50ng/ml cut-off? And why are they doing drug screenings in high schools? Minors cannot give informed consent, are the parents asked permission? Kids have a right to education regardless of what drugs they are using, not to mention a right to privacy. If I found out my daughters high school was making her pee in a cup in front of someone they would have a major lawsuit on their hands. She does not use drugs (no I am not in denial but I talk to my kid quite openly) but its not some bureaucrats business even if she did.
    When drug testing first started during the 80's, people were losing their jobs, losing custody of their kids for "traces" of drugs found in their system. Drug testing was new and there were little to no guidelines on what constituted a "positive" result.

    This is where the famous, "I ate a poppy-seed bagel and I failed my drug test" came from. Most people know this famous example. It really did happen.

    After tons of lawsuits against drug-testing companies, the FDA came up with minimum guidelines of what would constitute a "positive" drug screen. For a lab to operate, you cannot report a test as positive unless they EXCEED the minimums guidelines. Some states have higher minimums, but not lower.

    So for example, if you were around someone who smoked pot, you may show up for a trace amount, but an amount over X, is more likely than not, because of USE AND NOT random exposure.

    Now, because of minimum guidelines, trace amounts no longer cause you to fail a drug test...ACTIVE USE causes you to fail a drug test.

    Now, to the OP...there is no family member, no friend, that is worth putting my entire career at risk over...you are doing that every time you "hang out" with this person.

    Good luck explaining how you were an innocent bystander if you ever test positive for pot after being shut-up in a car and trying to claim that "you did not inhale" or if they get pulled over by the police, I can bet you everything, you'll go to jail right along with them.
    gypsyd8 likes this.
  10. Visit  jadelpn profile page
    2
    OP, maybe it is just me, but I am having a hard time following you. In your first post, you remark that you are "concerned" that your exposure to 2nd had pot smoke could "destroy" everything you worked so hard to achieve.
    I believe that if you should test positive or not, if it is in the confines of the "legal limit" or not, the risk could be that of police involvement, your car and/or person smelling of pot smoke and someone you work with questioning and perhaps reporting that, and what could end up being a real issue for you, and you do not partake yourself.
    In your most recent post, you give a good argument for the legalizing of pot. However, at present, pot is not legalized, employers frown on this type of indulging, and again, you could be put in a situation where you are on the recieving end of the fall out from someone else's drug use.
    You state that people drink on their time off. Well, that could be true, but if they are coming to work smelling of booze, then that could be an issue for them--and as you stated, it was for a co-worker who was let go. (and could argue that alcohol is LEGAL and they have RIGHTS.....you get where I am going with this....)
    As an adult, that you play violent video games or don't go to church or that you listen to "bad music" (<----Van Halen??? REALLY???? Come on now.....LOL) doesn't alter your abilities to the extent that a drug or alcohol would. (unless you have your co-workers call you by your SIMS character name or believe yourself to be a knight or something......but that's a whole nuther story)
    Bottom line is this. If you are concerned, it shouldn't matter the rest of the details. As an adult, if you enforce a no smoking in the car rule, then it is what it is and your friend/relative needs to not partake when he is in your car. A different take on this is that it sometimes doesn't matter if it is legal, not legal, if you could test positive, not positive....pot smoke smells gross to a number of people--it is a smell that often can't get out of your nose, your car, your clothes....much like cigarette smoke, and there's tons of threads on here that pretty much believe that cigarette smoking is the worst thing someone could do. So to say that the smell of pot is gross and you don't like it is a viable option. For some, trying to have conversation or hang out with someone who is stoned is irritating to say the least. That in your original post you allude to the fact that your friend/relative would tell you that you are somehow over-reacting if you would ask him not to smoke in the car, tells me that you are concerned that you will be seen as a "nerd" or "goody-goody" or it would somehow ruin your rep. This is, in just my opinion only, hogwash. You are gainfully employed in a position that requires certain standards. You are an adult with responsibilities. The least of your worries (again, just my opinion) shouldn't be if your relative/friend isn't gonna play with you anymore due to the way you choose to conduct your life that is right for you. We all like to think that our family and our friends always have our backs. Sometimes, that is not the case. That is a harsh thing to take in and deal with.
    Best wishes to you in whatever you decide.
    WeepingAngel and gypsyd8 like this.
  11. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    1
    Quote from Jory
    When drug testing first started during the 80's, people were losing their jobs, losing custody of their kids for "traces" of drugs found in their system. Drug testing was new and there were little to no guidelines on what constituted a "positive" result.

    This is where the famous, "I ate a poppy-seed bagel and I failed my drug test" came from. Most people know this famous example. It really did happen.

    After tons of lawsuits against drug-testing companies, the FDA came up with minimum guidelines of what would constitute a "positive" drug screen. For a lab to operate, you cannot report a test as positive unless they EXCEED the minimums guidelines. Some states have higher minimums, but not lower.

    So for example, if you were around someone who smoked pot, you may show up for a trace amount, but an amount over X, is more likely than not, because of USE AND NOT random exposure.

    Now, because of minimum guidelines, trace amounts no longer cause you to fail a drug test...ACTIVE USE causes you to fail a drug test.

    ..
    Thanks - I was going to answer this as well but you did a good job and beat me to it.

    Jory likes this.
  12. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    2
    Quote from gypsyd8
    I posted the question in reply to someone before I went back and read the entire thread. In any case, how do we know that a particular employer uses the 50ng/ml cut-off? And why are they doing drug screenings in high schools? Minors cannot give informed consent, are the parents asked permission? Kids have a right to education regardless of what drugs they are using, not to mention a right to privacy. If I found out my daughters high school was making her pee in a cup in front of someone they would have a major lawsuit on their hands. She does not use drugs (no I am not in denial but I talk to my kid quite openly) but its not some bureaucrats business even if she did.
    I'm in California and most school districts do drug testing on their athletes. All my adult kids had to do it. My 11 year old will too when he gets to high school.

    The one caveat I have is I wish all the coaches and teachers would step up and take the drug tests too.
    Jory and gypsyd8 like this.
  13. Visit  gypsyd8 profile page
    0
    thank you. awesome info
  14. Visit  roreyn02 profile page
    0
    [QUOTE=jadelpn;6959835]In your most recent post, you give a good argument for the legalizing of pot. However, at present, pot is not legalized, employers frown on this type of indulging, and again, you could be put in a situation where you are on the recieving end of the fall out from someone else's drug use.
    You state that people drink on their time off. Well, that could be true, but if they are coming to work smelling of booze, then that could be an issue for them--and as you stated, it was for a co-worker who was let go. (and could argue that alcohol is LEGAL and they have RIGHTS.....you get where I am going with this....)QUOTE]

    I completely understand that pot is not at present legal. Just venting. I think its so ridiculous that its illegal. I KNOW that alcohol is LEGAL and they have RIGHTS but what im trying to say is that if your all for pouring gallons of alcohol in your guts over the weekend you have no room to argue that people shouldnt be able to smoke a little bit of marijuana on their time off AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT COME INTO WORK AND DO IT, I MEAN MARIJUANA TOO I AM TOTALLY AGAINST PEOPLE GOING TO WORK HIGH!! So how many of these people who work so hard to keep pot illegal and ruin careers because someone smokes a little on their time off drink alcohol every once in awhile? How many of these judges, and these cops NEVER drink alcohol? Alcohol is a terrible drug for you much worse than marijuana. In moderation, both are harmless. So basically the law says you cant use marijuana in moderation, its illegal. The law doesnt care if you just smoke it on your time off they want to destroy your career. They dont care if you dont come into work high, if you smoke it AT ALL!! your job is gone. So basically what im saying here is like many other things in this country this prohibition of marijauna or really any drug at all is ridiculous. What do we do with people who are alcoholics? We dont put them in jail or black list them as long as they dont commit crimes WE GIVE THEM HELP!! WE INTERVENE!! WE DONT DESTROY THEIR WHOLE CAREERS OVER IT! At LEAST do THIS for the people who smoke. Dont ruin there whole ******* lives. If people have any kind of drug problem: meth, crack, heroine whatever they are not criminals they have a problem, a sickness. Instead of helping them out the law just pushes them further into their downward spiral.


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