Random drug tests

Guest372004 · Sep 22, 2012

Yes keep coming back. We just want you to feel comfortable. Perhaps you are from an area where pot smoking is not a big deal but I do think it is a big deal if it is smoked in a car. I doubt that in my area of living anyone would be tested for it as it is used off the job a lot. No one talks about it but it is well known. Just go to a nurse party and look out! I don't smoke it but have no issue being in its presence.

allnurses Guide · Sep 22, 2012

This is an issue of morality. Morality is subjective, it is not universal. Different people have different opinions based upon their own individual moral compass.
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My thought was simply the OP was concerned about the pot smoking in the car and maybe testing positive . . . . so my "backbone" comment was only about why can't someone say please don't smoke pot in my car? Nothing to do with anything except standing up for yourself.

This isn't about legalizing marijuana. And I thought I did give the OP the advice he/she asked for about how much THC shows up in testing.

Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN · Sep 22, 2012

My thought was simply the OP was concerned about the pot smoking in the car and maybe testing positive . . . . so my "backbone" comment was only about why can't someone say please don't smoke pot in my car? Nothing to do with anything except standing up for yourself.

Actually, you said "no you should not let someone smoke pot in your car, home, etc." I think it's fair to ask the OP why he can't just ask his relative not to smoke in his car, but telling him what he should or shouldn't do is moralizing.

I'm not picking on you in particular. I see most responders have replied to the OP in this way. I was just using your comment as an example.

allnurses Guide · Sep 22, 2012

Actually, you said "no you should not let someone smoke pot in your car, home, etc." I think it's fair to ask the OP why he can't just ask his relative not to smoke in his car, but telling him what he should or shouldn't do is moralizing.
I'm not picking on you in particular. I see most responders have replied to the OP in this way. I was just using your comment as an example.

I guess I just don't understand why people are so weak when it comes to standing up for themselves.

That was my beef.

Is someone really a good friend if they are willing to risk you losing your license by continuing to do something illegal in your car?

Whether it should be legalized or not - that's not my issue.

Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN · Sep 22, 2012

I haven't said anything about legalizing it. That's a whole 'nuther discussion!

roreyn02 · Sep 27, 2012

It should be legalized why worry about wether or not someone smokes a little pot once in awhile? I wouldnt smoke it even if it was legal its not my thing. I dont drink/smoke/do drugs. I often hear people say "I dont someone who smokes a few joints when their off work taking care of my grandma". Well fine im not a pothead so dont worry about me. But what if one day someone says, "I dont want someone who has a few drinks over the weekend to take care of my grandma" If we were to keep people who have a few beers on their time off out of the medical field that would weed out just about EVERYONE. A number of people who work in the medical field are darn near alcoholics during their time off. Im not saying a lot of people or only a few people I dont know so im just saying a number of people. Ive had people come to work at our nursing home who had the smell of alcohol in their breath and leaving empty beer cans in people's rooms. They got rid of him though. But I just think that as long as a person does their job and does it well we shouldnt worry about what they do at home. I may not drink/smoke/do drugs, but theres other things about me that people might find really controversial and just terrible. I play violent video games, I never go to church(im not religious), I might listen to some really crazy rock music sometimes like van halen but these are personal things that work isnt really allowed to dig into. Now if im sitting there at work with my headphones on and letting everyone's beds get wet, skipping out on med pass, or basically just not doing my job cuz I want to listen to music or play a gameboy then I can see how thats a problem. Or if I just call in because I want to sit at home and play video games. But I dont have those problems, and im pretty sure a little bit of marijuana during a person's time off could ever hurt. Just dont drive or work while doing it.

Anyway.. I am NOT at ALL trying to say that I shouldnt try and enforce a new "no smoking in the car" policy. This is the way of the world, laws are strict on pot and thats how its going to be. Doesnt matter how much I complain. I just find it ridiculous when theres such strict laws against marijuana which has never in the history of mankind ever killed anyone, yet all the judges, police, and the ignorant backwood rednecks got some idea that its ok to pour gallons of alcohol down their throats each week. Prohibition of alcohol was just as dumb as prohibition at all. Too bad Ron Paul probably isnt going to make it, from what I hear he was going to end prohibition of everything and save this country from all the efforts WASTED on the "war on drugs".

And NO im not PRO drug use. I just feel like we should treat people who do them like they got a problem not like criminals. Rather than deny them employment because they have a drug history we need to work on getting them working again. Blacklisting of people who use drugs only FORCES them into a LIFE OF CRIME! IF you cant work because your BLACKLISTED your forced to deal more drugs or steal cars to make ends meet! Im speaking for people I know whose lives are ruined because they messed up a few times with drug use. They never committed any other crimes and their ruined for it. Now I see myself being very successful compared to them, I dont want to lose what ive earned but I think its unfair.

I guess ive changed this topic into a politcal one now sorry.

gypsyd8 · Sep 27, 2012

I am curious as to why you believe that one cannot fail a drug test from secondhand marijuana smoke. If it is true that the THC content from secondhand marijuana smoke is undetectable, we need to know this based on clinical studies.

I agree about the moralizing. It is unnecessary, rude, and does not solve any problems or offer any solutions. smoking weed does not automatically make a person inferior. To the people who proudly proclaim "I don't know anyone like that," guess again. You probably do.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 27, 2012

I actually believe marijuana should be legalized and taxed like cigarettes and get this country out of it's financial trouble it's in right now.....but those profits will probably go into another politicians pocket.

Facilities are already alcohol testing employees and some nicotine test them and will not hire an employee who smokes tobacco. Tobacco is legal.

It's not about your family member smoking in your car or home it's about asking them to respect you and refrain from smoking around you for it endangers you job. My husband smokes..he puts his feet on the floor and lights up.....he goes outside when my mother comes to visit because she can't be around smoke. It's respectful.

I listen to Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath......I went to the last World tour of Zeppelin in 1977, man what a concert. My father thought they were the Anti Christ and the end of the world.....now you hear Led Zeppelin music played for a Cadillac commercial. I have always believed that what ever someone did at home was none of my business as long and the Did their job. But the world has changed.....big brother and big business is in every else's business.

Is is fair? No But unfortunately life isn't fair. The generation of "Give Peace a chance" is old now and the time of "do your own thing" is no longer popular. We have to change to remain relevant.

I wish you the best.

allnurses Guide · Sep 28, 2012

I am curious as to why you believe that one cannot fail a drug test from secondhand marijuana smoke. If it is true that the THC content from secondhand marijuana smoke is undetectable, we need to know this based on clinical studies.
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I do drug screenings 3 times a year at our local high schools. I posted this on Page 5 of this thread. Because kids try to get out of a positive THC urine test, they say yes to the question about being around medical marijuana. However, the levels are significantly different for passive and active. :cool: (I miss the smoking smilie). .

Infrequent (less than twice/week) Smoking: When screening assays of 50 ng/mL or greater are used, urine samples will generally be positive for 1-3 days.
Regular (several times per week) Smoking: May result in urine specimens testing positive for 7-21 days.
Chronic (daily) Smoking: An individual who smokes marijuana daily for prolonged periods of time can test positive for 30 days or longer.
Oral Ingestion: Metabolic profiles in urine samples cannot generally differentiate between marijuana ingested orally versus marijuana ingested by smoking. However, oral ingestion requires approximately three times more THC than smoking to produce similar effects or "highs"; therefore, visual detection of the marijuana in the ingested item would seem reasonable, thus ruling out unknown consumption. Retention time of orally ingested marijuana ranges from 1-5 days.
Passive Inhalation: In general, routine passive exposure to marijuana smoke will not result in a positive result for cannabinoids in excess of a 50 ng/mL screening cut-off.

http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com/res...marijuana.html

gypsyd8 · Sep 28, 2012

I posted the question in reply to someone before I went back and read the entire thread. In any case, how do we know that a particular employer uses the 50ng/ml cut-off? And why are they doing drug screenings in high schools? Minors cannot give informed consent, are the parents asked permission? Kids have a right to education regardless of what drugs they are using, not to mention a right to privacy. If I found out my daughters high school was making her pee in a cup in front of someone they would have a major lawsuit on their hands. She does not use drugs (no I am not in denial but I talk to my kid quite openly) but its not some bureaucrats business even if she did.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Sep 28, 2012

I would NEVER allow someone to smoke marijuana in my car. I do home care and my supplies pretty much always stay in my car... someone smoking in my car would mean I would carry the smell with me. In my state, the mere suspicion that a nurse may be under the influence while working (and walking in smelling like marijuana is "suspicion) warrants notifying the board. Nurses in my state are also prohibited from "aiding any person in performing any act prohibited by law or regulation." Allowing someone to smoke marijuana in your car and driving them around while they are doing so probably fits this criteria as marijuana is illegal. I don't know your states laws but if you were a colleague and you walked in to my place of work carrying the smell of marijuana, that would warrant suspicion of marijuana use and I would be required to call the Board of Nursing.

...that is not the appropriate step, because a smell is not proof of impairment or even influence.

You would report it to the employer, who would drug test and if the test result was positive, THE EMPLOYER WOULD REPORT to the board of nursing.

You don't report anything to a BON unless you have proof. That just clogs their system up with cases that aren't going anywhere, because I can assure you they won't do anything about a "he said, she said."

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Sep 28, 2012

I posted the question in reply to someone before I went back and read the entire thread. In any case, how do we know that a particular employer uses the 50ng/ml cut-off? And why are they doing drug screenings in high schools? Minors cannot give informed consent, are the parents asked permission? Kids have a right to education regardless of what drugs they are using, not to mention a right to privacy. If I found out my daughters high school was making her pee in a cup in front of someone they would have a major lawsuit on their hands. She does not use drugs (no I am not in denial but I talk to my kid quite openly) but its not some bureaucrats business even if she did.

When drug testing first started during the 80's, people were losing their jobs, losing custody of their kids for "traces" of drugs found in their system. Drug testing was new and there were little to no guidelines on what constituted a "positive" result.

This is where the famous, "I ate a poppy-seed bagel and I failed my drug test" came from. Most people know this famous example. It really did happen.

After tons of lawsuits against drug-testing companies, the FDA came up with minimum guidelines of what would constitute a "positive" drug screen. For a lab to operate, you cannot report a test as positive unless they EXCEED the minimums guidelines. Some states have higher minimums, but not lower.

So for example, if you were around someone who smoked pot, you may show up for a trace amount, but an amount over X, is more likely than not, because of USE AND NOT random exposure.

Now, because of minimum guidelines, trace amounts no longer cause you to fail a drug test...ACTIVE USE causes you to fail a drug test.

Now, to the OP...there is no family member, no friend, that is worth putting my entire career at risk over...you are doing that every time you "hang out" with this person.

Good luck explaining how you were an innocent bystander if you ever test positive for pot after being shut-up in a car and trying to claim that "you did not inhale" or if they get pulled over by the police, I can bet you everything, you'll go to jail right along with them.