Medical assistants and LPNs - page 8

HI all, I have just finished a medical assisting program and im now looking for a job. I have noticed alot of job openings for lpn but nothing for medical assistants. I was wondering first of... Read More

  1. by   HeartsOpenWide
    Quote from unitek1963
    Then, according to your state's (Alaska) OWN rules, you are breaking the law.

    Just my , here. But SHOULD you kill a patient, or disable them for life, etc., administering narcotics without a license, watch how fast that physician you speak of abandons you to the wolves.

    Once this happens, and if you know the rules of medication administration (i.e. it's not IF its gonna happen, it's WHEN its gonna happen), and the public gets wind of it (what!? they're NOT nurses and they're giving us medications!) then the rules will change on you mighty fast.

    Regards,

    Michael
    Before nursing school I was a CMA in California and we were allowed to administer narcotics under the directions of a physician, I have injections for Demerol and stadol for migraine patients all the time. It was IM of course, we can't do any I.V. We couldn't give epinephrine though.

    Are medical assistants allowed to administer injections of scheduled drugs?
    If after receiving the appropriate training as indicated in Item 1, medical assistants are allowed to administer injections of scheduled drugs only if the dosage is verified and the injection is intramuscular, intradermal or subcutaneous. The supervising physician or podiatrist must be on the premises as required in section 2069 of the Business and Professions Code, except as provided in subdivision (a) of that section. However, this does not include the administration of any anesthetic agent.
    Here is a good general of what an MA can or cant do
    http://www.medicalassistant.net/resp...can_i_do_that_
  2. by   Kidaroo102
    Quote from unitek1963
    Then, according to your state's (Alaska) OWN rules, you are breaking the law.

    Just my , here. But SHOULD you kill a patient, or disable them for life, etc., administering narcotics without a license, watch how fast that physician you speak of abandons you to the wolves.

    Once this happens, and if you know the rules of medication administration (i.e. it's not IF its gonna happen, it's WHEN its gonna happen), and the public gets wind of it (what!? they're NOT nurses and they're giving us medications!) then the rules will change on you mighty fast.

    Regards,

    Michael

    Currently Alaska has no laws about "unliscensed" personel administering narcotics. It does how ever have rules about who can deligate the order. A nurse can not deligate this to us, but a physician can.
  3. by   asoonernurse
    As I am in California, I cannot dispute this.

    Nevertheless, you are not a nurse, nor do you have the breadth of knowledge OR skills to be able to equate yourself to one.

    You will note that your "rules" state "delegated and SUPERVISED by". Nurses do not need to be supervised by physicians. CMAs do. Simple as that.

    Regards,

    Michael

    Quote from Kidaroo102
    Currently Alaska has no laws about "unliscensed" personel administering narcotics. It does how ever have rules about who can deligate the order. A nurse can not deligate this to us, but a physician can.
    Last edit by asoonernurse on Jun 2, '08
  4. by   Kidaroo102
    Quote from HeartsOpenWide
    Before nursing school I was a CMA in California and we were allowed to administer narcotics under the directions of a physician, I have injections for Demerol and stadol for migraine patients all the time. It was IM of course, we can't do any I.V. We couldn't give epinephrine though.



    Here is a good general of what an MA can or cant do
    http://www.medicalassistant.net/resp...can_i_do_that_
    Well this website was written by a webdesigner and is not accurate for all 50 States. Before reponding, I did check the AK statutes and Administrative Code to verify....Under the direction of a physician we can insert urinary catheters, and start, apply tubing, and administer medication with physicians orders. It simply states that a LNP, RN, or an LPN, LVN, can not supervise or delegate such tasks to us. A physician however can. Alaska is different from many states....more than I realized.

    I would like to comment that with everything this conversation has brought to light...I do agree that a CMA is by no means an RN. CMA's and LVN, LPN's are similiar and their roles cross, but there are some differences as well. I also agree that Medical Assisting needs to be organized across the nation considering that we hold national certification if one is chosen to be persued. I can say for a fact that there are none of the three month $300 MA programs here in AK. Currently there are 3 programs for CMA's and they are run by ACIS accredidated Colleges. All three programs have certificates at the completion of the program and Certification for those programs is manditory through the NCCT. The three schools here are University of Alaska Anchorage, Career Academy, and Charter College.
    I respect all of you for your comments and your knowledge. It has forced me to take the knowledge I have been working under into action to verify for myself what I am allowed to do legally in my state and what I am not allowed to do. THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT! Information is always a benefit to those that seek it and I am sure that the forum owners had this in mind when they created this community. All of you in the health care field whatever medium your education provides you do what you do well.

  5. by   HeartsOpenWide
    Quote from Kidaroo102
    Well this website was written by a webdesigner and is not accurate for all 50 States. :
    Thats why I said it was a general site. The quote I put however was from this site:
    http://www.medbd.ca.gov/allied/medical_assistants.html

    I am only a Senior nursing student in a BSN program and even though I use to be a "lowly" CMA myself, I still get mad when a CMA make comments like "I can do everything a nurse can" or "I am practically a nurse but I just don't get paid the same" when I visit other forums. California is very good at spelling out what a CMA can or can do...by law (see my link) I wish other states would follow suit.
  6. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from unitek1963
    I'm shocked that physicians are okay with this, myself. I'd love to get a doc's opinion of this one (where is TiredMD when you need him!)

    I have a feeling that they just can't be bothered to weigh in on this subject, but as I said in the previous posting, you can be absolutely certain that the doc is going to bail on you the MINUTE you make a medication mistake that puts his or her license in jeopardy.

    Needless to say, I would think that over the coming years, states (including Alaska) will tighten up on what a CMA can and cannot do. I don't see their scope of practice broadening (nurses would freak, and when nurses freak, doctors take note, and the chain reaction always reaches the various governing boards.)

    Regards,

    Michael
    Not only that, but if there is a nurse that is present, that same doctor will bail out on BOTH, the nurse and the CMA. This is the deal that makes nurses so outraged. We work with these licensed physicians every day and we know what they are capable of doing and not doing to protects their arses. He would say in court in a New York Minute that the nurse should have trained the CMA or observed for the patient's reaction. Suddenly, then, the CMA will fall under the scope of a nurse...when it is convienent for that doctor. And, many physicians may not even really look under the scope of practice of the CMA; they may just want a quick fix by hiring someone who is trained to do what he says, but not taking in all that this can encompass when a nurse gets involved.
  7. by   AnnemRN
    [color=#cc3300]
    [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]medical assistants are not allowed to chart pupillary responses! nor are they allowed to read, interpret or diagnose symptoms or test results.

    today, i had my tb test read by an ma (yes she stated it was "negative") and she documented it as such. this is at a pre-employment "wellness" clinic that the hospital i am going to work for uses for physicals and injuries.there are no licensed nurses working there only the ma's and the doctors. i would imagine this clinic has been allowing the ma's to do this for quite awhile.
  8. by   asoonernurse
    Well said, my friend. Please note that none of us here besmirch your knowledge nor what your state allows within its borders.

    I do truly believe that ALL states should come together an decide, once and for all, the boundaries and scope(s) of practice for ALL medical personnel, from CNA on through to NP.

    Just my . I will, most likely, be long passed away before that happens, though.

    Regards,

    Michael

    Quote from Kidaroo102
    Well this website was written by a webdesigner and is not accurate for all 50 States. Before reponding, I did check the AK statutes and Administrative Code to verify....Under the direction of a physician we can insert urinary catheters, and start, apply tubing, and administer medication with physicians orders. It simply states that a LNP, RN, or an LPN, LVN, can not supervise or delegate such tasks to us. A physician however can. Alaska is different from many states....more than I realized.

    I would like to comment that with everything this conversation has brought to light...I do agree that a CMA is by no means an RN. CMA's and LVN, LPN's are similiar and their roles cross, but there are some differences as well. I also agree that Medical Assisting needs to be organized across the nation considering that we hold national certification if one is chosen to be persued. I can say for a fact that there are none of the three month $300 MA programs here in AK. Currently there are 3 programs for CMA's and they are run by ACIS accredidated Colleges. All three programs have certificates at the completion of the program and Certification for those programs is manditory through the NCCT. The three schools here are University of Alaska Anchorage, Career Academy, and Charter College.
    I respect all of you for your comments and your knowledge. It has forced me to take the knowledge I have been working under into action to verify for myself what I am allowed to do legally in my state and what I am not allowed to do. THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT! Information is always a benefit to those that seek it and I am sure that the forum owners had this in mind when they created this community. All of you in the health care field whatever medium your education provides you do what you do well.

  9. by   asoonernurse
    Quote from HeartsOpenWide
    Before nursing school I was a CMA in California and we were allowed to administer narcotics under the directions of a physician, I have injections for Demerol and stadol for migraine patients all the time. It was IM of course, we can't do any I.V. We couldn't give epinephrine though.
    Wow.

    I'm stunned.

    As I said before (in a previous posting), I worked as a CNA in California for almost a decade, and no one EVER allowed me to inject any patient with anything. I'm jealous.

    Regards,

    Michael
  10. by   BearyPrivate
    Quote from txspadequeen921
    found this interesting . it came off the alaska board of nursing site....

    http://www.dced.state.ak.us/occ/pub/...delegation.pdf
    thank you from this 15 yr lpn that pretty much sums up this misunderstanding for me. now i wonder if the person who started this thread has ever seen this or even attempted to find it.
  11. by   BearyPrivate
    Quote from nursingis4me
    DANG EVERYBODY---CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?
    If you don't like the conversation I'm sorry but the consensus is that CMA's are not licensed professionals. I do not see any where in this thread where people are not getting along. IT'S CALLED A DISCUSSION!!!!!!!!!!!!:typing
  12. by   tothepointeLVN
    Whether or not an associates degree is award for ether LPN or MA is largely on completing the general studies requirement about 30 semester units and then the rest of the credits in the major. You can even get a AS in general studies ( ie random courses that make up to 60 units)

    A MA with and associates doesn't mean they are better equiped to a task than a lpn without.

    That would be like saying a Nurse with a PhD outranks a Dr who while have a medical degree don't have a PhD

    Its all about scope of practice.
  13. by   luvbnMA
    you r right but to compare a CNA to an CMA is no way out of rage..not to say they aren't great but what CNA u kno have an ASS. degree and still practice CNA

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