Allowing Corpsman to Become Nurses

[Asystole RN]

Watching the Presidential debate tonight and a statement by Obama made my head turn. He was relating a story when a corpsman was stating that he has treated wounded soldiers but when he became a civilian he could not use his training or experience to count towards becoming a nurse (unknown which kind). The corpsman was upset that he had to start his education/training from the beginning.

Obama stated that the requirements to be a nurse (assumed licensure/NCLEX requirements) should be changed to allow corpsman to become nurses (did not state which kind).

Any thoughts?

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Esme, Thank you for the compliment, I agree, I think former Corpsman and FMF Corpsman make excellant Nurses. First off, Let me thank everyone who has participated in this discussion and just on a technical note, the correct pronunciation is always Corpsman, there is no feminine for the word. My kind word, No PC to worry about, gotta love it LOL.

My personal experience was as a FMF Corpsman, meaning I was also trained by the US Marine Corp, in addition to being trained by the Navy. All of this was in another lifetime, during the Viet Nam War. I still have a great deal of difficulty speaking of this, so my explanation will be minimal. As you can imagine, the work of a war Corpsman is unlike anything you could ever prepare yourself for. Exploding ordinance, mines, your friends getting wounded in every way possible and it is your responsibility to see that everyone gets a fighting chance by making it to evac chopper at least, if you can even get one, and half the time that's impossible. Talk about experience, you can jury rig a chest tube out of spare parts, you don't worry about aseptic technique, that's the last thing on your mind, you're in 2 feet of mud to start with. Let the guys back at the evac worry about that. Next up is the kid with both his legs blown off. You've had 2 of your guys each holding a leg with a belt wrapped around it for the last 5 minutes until you could get to him while you were elbow deep in that other guys chest trying to keep his heart beating. You try to tie guys together with string, and stuff their guts with kerlex just so you can get them on the chopper. Two other guys are dead, so you might get a chance for your morning coffee after all.

Some of you may think that Corpsman don't have a clue as to why they do the things they do, and in some cases, you may be right. Some of them may not, especially now, and especially they lower rated HM strikers or HM3's who are working stateside at smaller bases and simply assisting the RN's and Dr.'s. Those who haven't had a chance to get their feet wet and take on any responsibility of their own. Those who have responsibilities usually also will expand their own minds and learn why they do what they do, simply for their own edification. If they go on to FMSS, to become FMF Corpsman, they are required to expand their knowledge more so than simple A school to become Corpsman for the Navy. They must become proficient in weaponry and a host of other disciplines as well. I urge you to not be so quick to sell Corpsman short; they just might have a whole bag of tricks you weren't aware of. When I came back from the war, there weren't any programs for transitions, I just utilized what I knew best and went to school to expand on what I knew how to do, and kept on going to school. When I first came back, they called me a baby killer and told me I shouldn't be a nurse. I said some things I'm not allowed to say on here. I just kept going to school until I got to where I didn't want to go anymore, and I was in a position to deal with some of those who thought I shouldn't be a Nurse.

You're welcome....I've worked with some FINE combat medics and the Trauma flight pilot I worked with was one of the best!

[PMFB-RN, RN]

In the meantime don't put me in charge of selecting applicants to a nursing program, because you know I'll be biased and throw all of the medics apps on the top of the pile ;] ... you know, things like that do happen... job applications as well. An RN with a medic background is way more than just a new grad and employer know this, trust me- they know they are getting far more than they are paying for, and at the end of the day in today's world, money talks, not jingoistic patriotism.

*** That is exactly what happend when I applied to RN school. The program dean looked at my application and my attached DD214 and moved my application right to the top of the pile. I am not sure if she broke any rules to get me in but darn sure she bent the heck out of them.

Turns out her son was a corpsman serving with the marines.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

I admit I may be just slightly biased, but I don't see anything wrong with returning vets getting preferential treatment when it comes to school or employment, as a matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb and say I think that's exactly where they belong, at the top of the heap. If they can put their butt on the line for this Country, then when they come home, they can certainly go to the head of the line when it comes to certain benefits.

[Britrn04, BSN, MSN, RN]

@ FMF Corpsman thank you for your service. I can certainly appreciate Corpsmen and all they do. My husband is AD USMC and been in over 20 years. He has been to Iraq and done overseas tours. I had 2 children in the Naval Hospital at Camp Pendleton. I get my healthcare at a Naval MTF to this day. So I have seen Corpsmen in action in clinics and hospitals etc :-) My husband will retire in 7 months and is working on his Masters to teach high school (uggghh-gag). I expect his military service to be taken into account as life experience, but he cannot easily transition into his new role without further education and training. Corpsman are highly respected and should be respected in civilian healthcare too, but some bridge program or transitional training should be done before being able to sit the NCLEX-RN.

[tokebi]

I have a tremendous respect and pride for US military, having been a part of it, and in support of benefits for the members as they adjust to civilian life. But, it's hard for me to understand why that particular corpsman was so unhappy. As someone pointed out, we have GI Bill. That's what enabled me to finish vocational nursing program after discharge. Also, NREMT-B was part of my medic training and I could've worked as an EMT through school if I wanted. I'm sure Corpsman has that too? I apologize if that is not the case, since I am not really sure how other branches work.

Sure, I did feel disappointed when I learned that my training didn't get any credit toward nursing. Once I started school, however, I was glad I started from the beginning. The focus is very different: not so much emergency care and lots of legal issues. I have no doubt that experienced medics and Corpsmen possess extensive knowledge, but there has to be an opportunity to learn civilian-specific nursing before transitioning into the role. Even if they have to start from very beginning, there's GI Bill to help them through.

The efforts to help our military members to transition into civilian life should focus more on those who don't have any easily transferable skills.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

I have a tremendous respect and pride for US military, having been a part of it, and in support of benefits for the members as they adjust to civilian life. But, it's hard for me to understand why that particular corpsman was so unhappy.

Sure, I did feel disappointed when I learned that my training didn't get any credit toward nursing. Once I started school, however, I was glad I started from the beginning. The focus is very different: not so much emergency care and lots of legal issues. I have no doubt that experienced medics and Corpsmen possess extensive knowledge, but there has to be an opportunity to learn civilian-specific nursing before transitioning into the role. Even if they have to start from very beginning, there's GI Bill to help them through.

The efforts to help our military members to transition into civilian life should focus more on those who don't have any easily transferable skills.

tokebi, Thank you for your service. I'm uncertain of the facts of the case the President was referring to as well, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would expect to come home and simply challenge boards, or whatever they are referred to these days, I guess I am showing my age. First off, I doubt very seriously that there would be the extreme 0.01% who would pass on the skills, knowledge and experience provided by the military. Granted there might be a few who did as I did and studied every chance I got to learn everything I possibly could while I was still in the service and trust me that wasn't easy, and while I did CLEP a few courses, I still had to attend classes and I still worked my a$$ off while I went to school. I first obtained my BSN and then my Masters, but only through a lot of hard work and seemingly endless nights. But back to the present day; I think allowing Corpsman, FMF Corpsman and Medics, basically any NCO medically trained military personnel, a Bridge Programs commensurate with their Military medical experience is only fair.

[Cro-Magnon]

I was a FMF Corpsman, and have to say that a corpsman's education is vast and varied. I agree that a Corpsman should be able to hop into a RN program. Usually they are intelligent, and used to a great amount of responsibility. Personally, the idea of being a LPN freaks me out. The scope of practice makes me feel claustrophobic.

The scope of practice for a Corpsman is difficult to define. Whatever you learn to do, you can do. You learn to assess, diagnosis and have a plan of care. If you do well enough, the Medical Officers begin to trust your judgement. You can prescribe medications, perform minor surgery, and many other things.

Our education has some gaps in it, especially if you're attached to a marine unit. It's a specific clientele, with specific needs. It is absolutely necessary to fill the gaps in my opinion.

Our experience on the other hand is one of a kind.

[mmm333, LVN]

It gets complicated. Every SEAL and SWCC gets trained as a "medic assistant" (enough to call them combat medics) roughly at the EMT-B level + IV therapy and medevacs. The "lead medics" attend at a minimum, the NSW combat medic course which automatically allows them to challenge EMT-P. From there they can get a number of advanced courses including the 18D special forces medic course. IDC etc. NSW medics are among the most highly-trained medics in the military. However, unless becoming a Corpsman first beforehand, none of these people must be or need actually be a Corpsman prior to this! This is because SEAL (SO) and SWCC (SB) ratings were recently created for them to focus on their main skills and not get caught up in the "big Navy" details or have to study that stuff in order to advance in rank. LVN can be a mismatch with the acuity these guys are used to. However they do run sick call and clinics as well. Most of these guys are going PA or RN, not LVN, after getting out.

They usually get the Navy to pay for that and stay in 10 more years after their badass days are over, OR they get out and use GI Bill to start a civilian career. My lead medic is the one who recommended that I become an RN before I got out (which I did using GI Bill).

We talk about owing our vets, well- has anyone checked how much the post-9/11 GI Bill pays out for school + living expenses? It's a hell of a lot! We're doing a pretty good job of making it possible for them to become nurses, they just need the info shared with them.

A number of schools give MAJOR ("shoe-in") preference to vets such as CSU East Bay and other CSUs. In general there is another HUGE and somewhat lesser known benefit- most schools give "priority enrollment" to vets (first seats, no waitlists to get into high-demand majors/classes/prerequisites, etc. right behind the disabled students, dates are always before anyone else can pick their classes and sign up). This allows vets to get all prereqs knocked out faster because they always get the class and schedule that they want.

[mmm333, LVN]

Yeah it's all over the map- some medics to trach intubation/IV/IO, some don't. The have massive overlaps and some lacking knowledge in the sciences and the patho in many cases. In general they get shortchanged but once in a program they will have an advantage and then another advantage in the job hunt when people select their resumes first. I would tell any corpsman or medic to use GI Bill, knock out the prereqs, go nail the BSN, and get hired. Or wrap their PA prereqs into the very end of a BA/BS degree in health science/chem/pharmacology stuff and then go to PA for grad school (GI Bill can cover it all that if you save your money and budget everything out, pull all the strings, and go to a cheaper state to do this. I would say skip the LVN unless you can just test out and grab that right away and use it to work SNF for some money while getting the rest done.

I think at a minimum we are going to see Obama push more states to allow corpsmen to challenge LPN.

[nurse2033, MSN, RN]

Mr. Obama may be many things, but he is not an authority on nursing, nor does he "run" nursing. Laws and regulations regarding nursing are written at the state level, over which the President has no authority. I am for all transition programs that allow partitioners like corpsman, EMTs, paramedics, medics and so on become nurses. These programs should assess what knowledge they have, and add to it the required nursing curriculum.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

mmm333, I think this is all good. It gives those who want to go forward on this career path, a leg up and I see nothing wrong with assisting our veterans, after they've put their lives on the line for our Country, and for you and I to enjoy the freedoms most of us take for granted each and everyday. I don't believe it gives anyone an unfair advantage over anyone else, as everyone is free to join the Military, go to a theater of war and take their chances as to if they survive their enlistment. If they aren't willing to participate, they need to simply attend the college of their choice the old-fashioned way, with student loans, after school jobs, and wait for their name to come up on the waiting list.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

Britrn04, Best wishes for your husband when he finally retires, especially as a HS teacher, LOL. I can't imagine, but I guess we all have a calling. I don't know what he is currently doing for the NAVY, but most of us need some sort of bridge training in order to support a smooth transition to the civilian work force. The Military system works quite well as long as it remains within the Military, but the transition just doesn't cut it, there are gaps, whereas in the Military there are redundancies, but spread over several people. I agree that most people are not ready to sit for NCLEX-RN without additional training. If someone wishes to attempt it, they are likely simply foolish, ill prepared, and wasting their time and money. BUT, it might tell them where their strengths and weaknesses lie.