Will I get in trouble ? ? ?

[Congababe13]

Hello,

I am a 2nd yr nursing student, I graduate in May. I had an OR observation

yesterday and was able to watch an endo lap chole. I may add that I was very

excited as my goal is to become an OR nurse.

When the gallbladder became visible on the monitor I took a picture of it with

my cell phone. The picture only included the endo monitor with NO identifiable

info on it. Is this a HIPPA violation? I was excited and didn't think anything

about taking a pic of the gallbladder on the monitor. The nurse seen me take

the picture and immediately told me that was not allowed and that I needed to

delete the picture, which I did.

Upon returning to the floor my clinical instructor had received a phone call from the hospitals edu department letting her know that they need to see me and to bring my phone. I went and explained what had happened, show them my phone to prove that the pic had in fact been deleted and I was told that was okay, I' not in trouble.

Today I get an email from the Head of Nursing at my school saying that I need

to come in and see her in the morning before I go to class. Can I be kicked out

of the program for this? She stated in the email that it was a HIPPA violation

but everything I can find states that it's not a violation as long as there is

not any identifiable information related to the patient.

Does anyone have any suggestions and/or advice about this situation or how to

handle my meeting at school tomorrow morning? Any information or suggestions

would be greatly appreciated . . . I did not mean any harm; I was just excited

to see the gallbladder come up on the monitor

[ProudStudent]

It stinks that you were removed from the program, but the rules are the rules and they must make you understand how much of a liability this could have been. Like someone said in an earlier post, you could have diminished the relationship between your school and the clinical site. I'm sorry for your hardship, we all know how hard you worked to get into the program.

Now, "chop-chop, lollipop"...you've got some work to do! Get back in there and change their minds about you please.

[Skips, MSN, RN]

Yeah ! I have NOT corrected her, lol !

I sooooo hope that they give me another chance.

The VP said that to me today, she said " I bet you never make that mistake again "

While I do agree that you made a mistake, I do not feel like you should have gotten kicked out of the program. I apologize. I hope you can work yourself back in. Best wishes!

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

Why would the school have to "make it clear" what their policies are. She says she KNEW that cell phones were NOT allowed at clinicals yet "everyone does it". That doesn't make it right. I'm assuming that the OP can read, and DID read the policies set forth by her school. It sounds as thought the school is NOT creating a lax attitude for violation of the policy---she used her phone in clinical, KNOWING it wasn't allowed and got caught. To blame the school or facility for any of this is ridiculous....

This is upsetting, I hope your school de-colon-ifies their heads. Any conversation about common sense should include your schools lack of it for failing to make it clear to you that this unacceptable before the fact. So many of these posts are scolding you for lack of judgement, but I don't think this is such a 2 dimensional problem.

As a military leader, I really hope that your faculty is getting their butts handed to them for creating a lax atmosphere surrounding the use of electronics in a HIPAA environment. I really hope they are getting their butts handed to them for failing to make it unquestionably clear that this is unsat, and realizing that students may "forget" and as leaders they may need to " course correct" and remind students not to use electronics. Should they only have to tell you once? Whatever. They should know that they are responsible for your actions still at this point in your training. It sounds like it was buried in your handbook and not emphasized or made clear enough. Are you responsible to read everything presented to you? of course! But they still have to guide you.

I hope that your faculty is getting their butts handed to them for allowing what seems to be an enthusiastic student fall by the wayside. I hope that the gravity of their decision on your life is clear to them.

They have a clear opportunity to put you on the right path and teach you a lesson that you won't forget, and meanwhile create a quality nurse in the process. Leadership failures that are allowed to cascade down to follower-ship are the worst kind because they are self perpetuating and easily covered up.

Just my two cents, I hope that your appeal is successful. If not I hope that my response helps you get through the Anger stage of the five stages of grief, it certainly reflects the outrage I feel at your situation.

A big part of me thinks that cooler heads will prevail for you and your appeal will go through on Monday. Good luck and let us know.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

Why would the school have to "make it clear" what their policies are. She says she KNEW that cell phones were NOT allowed at clinicals yet "everyone does it". That doesn't make it right. I'm assuming that the OP can read, and DID read the policies set forth by her school. It sounds as thought the school is NOT creating a lax attitude for violation of the policy---she used her phone in clinical, KNOWING it wasn't allowed and got caught. To blame the school or facility for any of this is ridiculous....

Isn't pretty much every student required to acknowledge receipt of and reading of the SON handbook? I know my school required this over 10 years ago.

Considering the blatant disregard of school policy, disregard for patient privacy, and possibly endangering a clinical location for the school, I would think the student would be incredibly lucky to have a successful appeal on Monday. OP, I certainly hope things work out for you and that you learn the lesson from this and take it to heart. I also hope your school doesn't suffer any ill effects of your action, and that you keep in mind that you are not the only person at risk of being expelled in this situation- you may have inadvertently affected every student in your school. Clinical locations are in short supply, which is probably part of why your program acted so harshly, as they are trying to salvage their own reputation at the hospital and maintain the clinical site. Even if you are allowed to stay in the program, you may continue to have problems if the hospital chooses to not allow your presence as a student.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Hello,

Thanks to everyone for their comments whether positive or negative. Our nursing program does NOT want us to have cell phones at clinical. They are suppose to be left in our cars or secured in some other way and we can only check them at lunch. Everyone DOES take them to clinical though because where I'm at for clinicals you must take a shuttle to the hospital from your car and no one has time to do that during lunch and the majority of us have kids. I was wearing my own scrubs not OR scrubs, I didn't have my clinical bag because I knew that I would be in the OR without a place to have my things throughout the day. I have a degree in psychology and I know the importance of protecting a patients information, this is or wasn’t the same thing. I was disconnected from the patient in this situation.

In regards to “I should have known better because I'm a 2nd year student" is really irrelevant, HIPAA has not been drilled into our heads from the beginning.This was a common sense issue not a HIPAA rule that I should have known. It is not a HIPAA violation by the way but a violation of privacy. I'm NOT a Nurse, I am a student and A EXCELLENT CARE TAKER ~ but I have and will make mistakes.

I was standing in the corner of the OR for hours, I could not even see the patient, and the only thing I could see is the 5 monitors that were showing the inside of the patient’s stomach. I'm not denying that I made a HUGE mistake but I am saying that this mistake should not define who I am, what kind of Nurse I would be, or be an indication of my judgment as a professional. I didn't try to hide taking the picture as there was a RN and X-ray tech standing right over my shoulder ( btw-the nurse was taking pictures out of a product catalog and texting it to her friends for orders) .

I'm a nerd, I love medicine and biology, I have a microscope at home, I want to be an OR nurse . . . I was in awe! After staring at the monitors for a long time, I separated what I was seeing on the monitors from the patient. I wasn'tthe nurse in the OR; if I was I would have been doing my job.

So my appointment was yesterday not today and I did get removed from the program. I had two meetings yesterday and one with the VP of Academic/StudentAffairs today. The VP set-up a meeting for me on Monday with herself, the Dean and the dept head so I have no idea what will happen then. I'm in the process of writing an apology letter to all involved. I do in fact believe that there should be some type of probation or disciplinary action but having said that I believe that removal from the program is a little harsh. I feel like my heart has been ripped out of my chest as I want this more than anything. I have spent the last 31 months of life fighting everyday to be good enough to make it to the end. I have watched my friends fail out all around me and I'm actually passing and making it but I had to go and do something completely thoughtless to mess it up.

Could those of you that don't think I'm a horrible person please send any extra Ju`Ju that you may have my way ~ I need all of the help I can get right now . .. This is absolutely the worst feeling in the world !

No one thinks you are a bad person nor that you would be a bad nurse. It is just one of those things that it is what it is. I am so very sorry this happened to you....very sorry. But I knew that this would not be taken lightly. I've been a nurse a long time and I knew this would be a cardinal sin.

I have been in awe at many things during my career....but I have never felt compelled to take a picture. I've been a nurse for 35 years......I'm as nerdy as they come. Again....it doesn't matter what the other nurses were doing.....it matters what YOU were doing that matters.

I am sending you prayers and I hope a miracle comes your way.:)

[Kimynurse]

Keeping in my thoughts and prayers

[Stephalump]

I'm so sorry OP. that must have been quite a blow

There's almost nothing worse you can spin nursing school than to break hospital policy. I think they'd rather you break school policy than have the "embarrassment" of the hospital up in arms. I'm sure my program would have done the same to me if I was in your shoes. Any bad feedback from a professional at clinicals is paramount to the apocalypse.

But keep your chin up. You may be down for now, but if this is what you want you'll make it happen and you definitely won't make this mistake twice.

Good luck!

[kgh31386, BSN, MSN, RN]

The problem I have with the whole ordeal is that you STILL mention what everyone else was doing. The little comments about "btw the nurse was taking pictures and doing this" or "other nurses were doing that". THEM having their phone out may not be against their policy, but as a student you are not allowed to do so. Right now I'm posting this from work, if you're a student at clinical...would you be on here posting things? You can't say "well the other nurse was online browsing the web". You feel sorry for your mistake yes....but you are missing the point that you cannot and should not ever compare yourself and base your actions on what ANYONE, I repeat..>ANYONE else does. best of luck Monday, but understand that this concerns only you.

[tacomaster]

I'm noticing that you are still making excuses for your actions by blaming the nurses and others, etc. I noticed that you pointed out that you had children. I suppose that gives you a free pass to bring your cell phone? I'm just curious what you meant by that. I'm always curious because everyone clings to their cell phones these days. What did we do before them? I'm sure if something traumatic would have happened, someone would have been able to get a hold of you or it could have waited.

I am a nursing student about to graduate in May as well. I am annoyed by some of my classmates who are incredibly immature and do not take their clinicals seriously. I feel, although this may be incorrect, that you were doing the same thing. Clinical time is to be spent learning, not to be taking photos so you can post them later to Facebook or show off to your friends and brag how super awesome you are. Yippy! OMG! Fo REELZ!!! You saw a gallbladder! You know you can open a medical book and see pictures of those right? You can even do a Google image search and view them there.

When you make these excuses, you are just telling everyone that you think you are above the rules and that they don't apply to you. That is how the administrators and the dean will view this. They'll also wonder what you are capable of doing when no one is around. I don't even care about the privacy debate because it's more of an integrity and common sense thing to me.

[Congababe13]

Thanks to all who have offered their prayers and good wishes . . . Some of your comments helped me to see how things could have ended in a more serious situation but also gave methe strength to make it through until today, so thank you ! ! !

Today I went to my meeting with a typed apology in-hand and also took with me pictures of brains, kidneys, etc (these are pictures I took in my biology & A&P classes) I plead with them to understand how sorry I am over the whole situation and for placing the school in a bad situation with the clinical facility.I explained that I felt as though I was disconnected from the patient in thiss ituation as I was in the OR for over 10 hours when this happened, and I was not allowed to participate in any patient care because my clinical instructor was not present. I felt like I was in a lab or something similar as I could not see the patient that was being operated on, only the monitors showing the patients abdomen.

I do own that what I did was a severe lack of judgment, unprofessional, etc but I will not admit that this is the way I make my decisions on a daily basis. I am a very professional, well-mannered individual with the biggest heart you could ever imagine. I would never knowingly put my school, the hospital, the patient, or my career as a student or as a nurse at risk. At my meeting today I offered to put together a presentation for the 1st year students in regards to HIPAA, privacy, cell phone usage, and what all of the papers they are signing really mean, the nursing school faculty thought that this was a great idea !

I was accepted back into the program with the understanding that I will work with nursing faculty in preparing the presentation and also that my name would not so much as be mentioned until it is said at graduation. All I can say is I'm so thankful that my Dean, my professors and all involved could see that no harm was meant and that I have most definitely learned my lesson but that I also want to educate others to hopefully prevent any incidences like this one from happening in the future.

Again thanks for all of the prayers and good wishes . . . Now I have some serious studying to get back to, thankfully !

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

I'm very glad to hear that outcome! It sounds like you approached this meeting properly with thoughtful offers that showed maturity and responsibility. Best of luck to you!

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

I'm thrilled for you that your school has given you a second chance---make the most of it!! If someone learns from your mistake and future presentations, some good will come of it =)