Life-Span class is shortening mine. - page 10

I'm just whinning........certainly to a group of intellectuals that can somehow utilize this contradictory load of crap. I'm certain this will be the only useless part of school, but I just can't... Read More

  1. by   fergus51
    Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur
    How do you know you are observing the end result of feelings?

    Couldn't the actions be reflexive instinct as is the case with rooting behavior. If you used that logic for rooting you would mistake it for hunger.

    Or is reflex a primitive "feeling"?

    Now this is approaching a discussion!
    Instincts, like rooting and breathing, will be shown among all healthy infants. It isn't just coincidence that NEGLECTED infants have similar behavioral and psychological problems, thouhg I can never truly prove it to you.

    It's like saying "How do you know the abused woman has PTSD from being abused, maybe it's just her natural state, or she got it from something else?". You can never prove for a fact that X causes Y, but after research and studies continue to support a hypothesis (not PROVE, because you can never PROVE a hypothesis, right you science lover?) most people eventually come to believe it is true. I mean, maybe cholesterol doesn't contribute to heart attacks, it could just be a coincidence that studies show they do...

    Hell, Peeps, neglected babies may show signs of depression because little green men from Mars, who are invisible to adults, are making them do it. Prove me wrong.... You probably can't. That's the beauty and frustration of science, especially concerning something as non-concrete as feelings.
  2. by   mzmckim
    kardut - see my pm to you...

    best of luck...

    mzmckim
  3. by   Sleepyeyes
    For more information on the above-mentioned book and for some more excerpts, please check out this link.

    http://www.gurus.com/dougdeb/Courses...ner/BTmain.htm

    When Bad Things Happen to Good People
    5. God leaves us room to be human [pages 72-86]

    "I think there is more to the story [of Adam and Eve] than a simple case of disobeying God and being punished for it. My interpretation may be very different from the ones you have grown up with, but I think it makes sense and fits the biblical context. I think the story is about the differences between being human and being an animal. And the key to understanding it is the fact that the 'forbidden' tree is called the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." [pages 74-75]

    "This, then is what happened to Adam and Eve. They became human. They had to leave the Garden of Eden, where animals eat from the Tree of Life, the tree of basic life-forces and instincts. They entered the world of the knowledge of good and evil, a more painful, more complicated world, where they would have to make difficult moral choices." [page 78]

    "This is what it means to be human 'in the image of God.' It means being free to make choices instead of doing whatever our instincts would tell us to do. It means knowing that some choices are good, and others are bad, and it is our job to know the difference.... But if Man is truly free to choose, if he can show himself as being virtuous by freely choosing the good when the bad is equally possible, then he has to be free to choose the bad also. If he were only free to do good, he would not really be choosing. If we are bound to do good, then we are not free to choose it." [page 79]

    "Why, then, do bad things happen to good people? One reason is that our being human leaves us free to hurt each other, and God can't stop us without taking away the freedom that makes us human. Human beings can cheat each other, rob each other, hurt each other, and God can only look down in pity and compassion at how little we have learned over the ages about how human beings should behave." [page 81]

    "When people ask 'Where was God in Auschwitz? How could he have allowed the Nazis to kill so many innocent men, women, and children?', my response is that it was not God who caused it. It was caused by human beings choosing to be cruel to their fellow man." [page 81]

    "I have to believe that the Holocaust was at least as much of an offense to God's moral order as it is to mine, or how can I respect God as a source of moral guidance? ... I have to believe that the tears and prayers of the victims aroused God's compassion, but having given Man freedom to choose, including the freedom to choose to hurt his neighbor, there was nothing God could do to prevent it." [pages 82-85]

    Return to outline
    Last edit by Sleepyeyes on Jul 8, '02
  4. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Oh my GAWWD!

    I just wrote the "mother of all posts" and it said I had too many images and to go back and correct them.

    When I hit the back button..............It was gone!!
  5. by   Sleepyeyes
    wahhhh!!
    when i know i'm gonna write a long one, i put it on ms word and copy it....
  6. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Well,I didn't know that until I was writing it,ya know. After I was in a few paragraphs I just got lost in it.

    It had phrases in it like............"The Heavenly Voyuer" and "Cellestial Candid Camera"

    A discussion of fetal neuron development and everything!

    I need a "Power Nap".......but I will try later.

    I promise!!
  7. by   live4today
    originally posted by peeps mcarthur
    oh my gawwd!

    i just wrote the "mother of all posts" and it said i had too many images and to go back and correct them.

    when i hit the back button..............it was gone!!
    that has happened to me a number of times, too, peeps. sometimes, i would just retype the post...other times i didn't.

    good morning sleepyeyes!
    how are you today? i enjoyed your post on rabbi kushner's book titled "why bad things happen to good people". back in the mid-1980's, the sunday school class i was a part of at that time studied rabbi kushner's book for our sunday school learning material. he did an excellent job of writing that book, and it is well worth the read. (thank you, rabbi kushner, wherever you are today for the inspiration your book planted in my heart.) :kiss


    peeps...i hope you'll take the time to check out the website sleepyeyes posted to rabbi kushner's site, and i hope you too will be inspired by what he has to say on the subject of "why bad things happen to good people". for reasons only god knows, you were on my mind the first waking moment this morning, peeps. somehow, i am feeling a spiritual connection with you and a desire to be an encourager and mentor to you if you would like one. feel free to send me a "pm" anytime you feel the need or just want encouragement...or a listening ear...or want to share something...whatever...i am on board for you as your friend and spiritual sister. i hope your upcoming week is filled with peaceful moments and much contentment. :kiss
    Last edit by live4today on Jul 8, '02
  8. by   OBNURSEHEATHER
    Originally posted by Sleepyeyes
    wahhhh!!
    when i know i'm gonna write a long one, i put it on ms word and copy it....
    Ditto!

    Heather
  9. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    By Fergus:

    You can never prove for a fact that X causes Y, but after research and studies continue to support a hypothesis (not PROVE, because you can never PROVE a hypothesis, right you science lover?) most people eventually come to believe it is true. I mean, maybe cholesterol doesn't contribute to heart attacks, it could just be a coincidence that studies show they do...

    That's true,if you know its source. In this case you can't know the source because you can't know what a baby is thinking. It's very popular because practitioners that care for babies have a maternal instinct. It drives them biologicly(as Cheerful pointed out)to try and help babies even when they feel they don't know what's wrong. Since this is the "best" answer so far,and it seems to help them somehow,those maternal types will accept it no matter how unrealistic because the end result is more important to a maternal instinct than the means.
    An example:
    The baby cries-----you make a goofy face-------baby continues-----you blow a raspberry--------baby continues---------you make a goofy face,blow a raspberry and make the sound of an ape--------Baby stops crying---------Was it the goofy face,the raspberry or the sound of an ape?
    You could replay that scenario and produce a repeatable experiment. Without a baseline(why they cry) you will not know how you produced the result(cessation of crying),but when you see the result duplicate itself then you must have stopped whatever process that caused the crying..............unless your babies had gas,hunger pains,bowel movement,temp change or any other variable...........such as reflex. In that case,it stopped whether you blew a raspberry or not.

    A coincidence,quite true.

    On the subject of God, crackbabies and other unfortunates:

    I believe that the Garden must have been a painfuly boring place for the almighty. Imagine an all knowing,all seeing,omnipresent God trying to entertain himself(literary form) interacting with a couple of goody-goodies as the only two people on Earth. He created them after all,so it wasn't anything like watching Survivor now was it?
    The Tree was not so much a temptation,but the one ingredient that was needed to really get this party rolling......free will.
    From Sleepyeyes post:
    [quote]"They entered the world of the knowledge of good and evil, a more painful, more complicated world, where they would have to make difficult moral choices." [page 78]"
    The Heavenly Voyuer was ready to change the channel.

    Free will was a failed experiment that God had to eventually trash(the Great Flood) but he had already created mankind and believed so much that it could work that he did the whole project with Noah's family instead of starting over.
    The curse from the original sin must then continue as mankind continues so Badda-boom-Badda-Bing.................crackbabies and Adolph Hitler. The original sin at the Tree must continue to plauge mankind(somehow nurses got the most of that germ line)so God can continue to tune in to Cellestial Candid Camera.
    What God tunes in for is moral choice(that puts my show in jeapordy of being cancelled) and "free will" being influenced.

    A baby has no free will until its neural connections for "choice" are complete.
    This is where I went into some detail yesterday and then it got wiped out so I'll paraphrase
    The fetal brain is undeveloped. If the brain was fully developed at birth, cesarean sections would be more widely popular so everything that makes emotion is in the undeveloped brain of a baby but unable to be created in the first place or expressed because of incomplete neural pathways both afferent and efferent.
    We could say with that logic that crackbabies do not "feel" abandoned and do not have "free will" just as other babies do not. An emotion cannot be validated where a reflex can be also. It is all the product of an incomplete neurological system that is not said to be intact until age 5 or so.
    Fergus wrote:
    Hell, Peeps, neglected babies may show signs of depression because little green men from Mars, who are invisible to adults, are making them do it.
    And I'm sure a psychologist somewhere is making a life long study of that so they can "ponder" for a living!

    But I do know that the brain is undeveloped at birth as a natural way of preserving a females "soft tissue" intact after birth and I also know that emotions that are connected to the enviroment other than the organism itself,must not only come from the primitive brain but be processed correctly from the enviromental insult that was causal.........then I know that I'm probably considering an unlikely origination point for an "emotion".

    From Cheerful:

    For reasons only God knows, you were on my mind the first waking moment this morning, Peeps. Somehow, I am feeling a spiritual connection with you and a desire to be an encourager and mentor to you if you would like one.
    That is very sweet of you:kiss Just know that if I need advice it can't be about nursing because you kicked me out of it a couple of posts ago
    Did you just send me another acceptance letter? I haven't recieved it yet.



    Smile! Your on Cellestial Candid Camera!
  10. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Not as good as the original...............................but what is?

    It is saved in Word.

    Thanks
  11. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Lurker>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heather.
  12. by   live4today
    Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur
    .........................From Cheerful:
    That is very sweet of you. :kiss Just know that if I need advice it can't be about nursing because you kicked me out of it a couple of posts ago.
    Did you just send me another acceptance letter? I haven't recieved it yet. ................

    Ohhhhhhh Peeps! What on Earth will your siblings here at Allnurses do with you??? :chuckle Did you give your parents this much grief while growing up???

    Only YOU can make or break your goal of becoming a fine nurse one day, but FIRST you've got to get through that dang course called LIFE SPAN AND HUMAN DEVELOPMENT! Are you up to the challenge of doing that???
  13. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    I could probably get a "C" in any class that was ever invented to torment those that would pay the class fees.......................just the thought of a "C" makes me ill.

    To obtain a higher grade I would have to be motivated by something about the material,but I'm having a difficult time just believing it, let alone,wanting to understand a more deeper meaning other that rote memorization.

    I will pass.
    but to me that will be a fail.

    Are nursing classes like this?

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