You are part of the problem with healthcare today if... - page 8

If, in your "healthcare job" you never touch anything but paper, or smell anything but coffee, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH HEALTHCARE TODAY! If your job description DOESN'T have an annual... Read More

  1. by   tlandrn
    I took a 20 percent pay cut moving from bedside to leadership and stayed the same pay rate moving into management. We make the same as the academic nurse educators at a college or university. Bedside makes the most money. That is why there are no pay cuts, just no raises. Working as a hospital recruiter was very enlightening!
  2. by   HealthShepherd
    Quote from ruby vee
    if there weren't a good bit of truth in it, i don't think the management types would get so bent out of shape about a vent that was meant to be humorous.
    well, imagine this: a "business casual" type starts a thread saying that bedside nurses are ignorant and worthless. predictably, many allnursers respond with anger and with evidence to the contrary, despite the op's followup claim that it was "satire".

    would you think that there must have been a grain of truth in the claim, since people are upset?
    Last edit by HealthShepherd on Mar 26, '10
  3. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from rhymeswithlibrarian
    well, imagine this: a "business casual" type starts a thread saying that bedside nurses are ignorant and worthless. predictably, many allnursers respond with anger and with evidence to the contrary, despite the op's followup claim that it was "satire".

    would you think that there must have been a grain of truth in the claim, since people are upset?
    the thread implies that some "business casual" types have forgotten what it is to be a bedside nurse or perhaps never knew in the first place. which is true. but much of the rest of the thread heatedly explains that the "business casual" types have risen above mere bedside nursing and deserves the covered parking place and the corner office. or that they're ever so much happier since they left the bedside and the rest of us should do so, too, rather than perhaps love the bedside but participate in the occaisional vent about the business casual folks who give us one more form to fill out "because they're doing a study" and nevermind that we're already charting our hourly glucoses in four different spots in three different programs and that perhaps the study folks could pull their data from that.

    in their rush to defend themselves, the business casual folks do send the message that they believe bedside nurses are a bunch of ignorant children to be treated like such.
  4. by   noc4senuf
    I would never believe that my staff are ignorant, since I hired most of them. They are highly intelligent and am proud to work with them AND park along side of them in the same lot. I believe there is good and bad in administration as there is in floor staff. We all know how to just deal with it and life goes on. I don't think it is anything to get the dander up about.
  5. by   eriksoln
    Quote from ruby vee
    the thread implies that some "business casual" types have forgotten what it is to be a bedside nurse or perhaps never knew in the first place. which is true. but much of the rest of the thread heatedly explains that the "business casual" types have risen above mere bedside nursing and deserves the covered parking place and the corner office. or that they're ever so much happier since they left the bedside and the rest of us should do so, too, rather than perhaps love the bedside but participate in the occaisional vent about the business casual folks who give us one more form to fill out "because they're doing a study" and nevermind that we're already charting our hourly glucoses in four different spots in three different programs and that perhaps the study folks could pull their data from that.

    in their rush to defend themselves, the business casual folks do send the message that they believe bedside nurses are a bunch of ignorant children to be treated like such.
    yeah, thats the one thing thats been in the back of my mind throughout this whole thread.

    most "suits" i know, be it supervisors, managers, admin., research people...................about 90% of them will tell you:

    "i would never go back to bedside nursing. i got away from it for a reason. if i had to go back to it, i'd retire from the medical field entirely and go into something else."

    now, i don't have a problem with that per say. they decided it was not for them and did whatever they had to do to find something more "suitable" lol, no pun intended.

    what i do have a problem with are the one's who one day will say what i described above, then they will send endless emails to you about "this and that needs done better" or "we are creating a new form since this and that seem to keep getting missed".

    its almost like some of em have completely lost that part of their memory about what it was like on our side of the fence. they leave the bedside and...............bam...........something happens and they are doing the same things they used to complain about the "suits" doing. i don't get it.
  6. by   dhaylecs
    Hi brothers and sisters in nursing.

    Let me put in a non American view on your issue.

    If you can be on CNN and justify telling me that a 1l bag of IV 0.9% Nacl and an iv line is worth $250.00 in the USA but less than $10.00 every where else in the world. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

    (Dr Satjay Gupta explained away the high cost of medical equipement and accessories in the USA to patents and development costs. he also stated that hospitals collect less than half of monies owed to them, so make them pay dont kill those who are willing to pay.)

    I know that I will take some heat but...........
    i can take it.
    Last edit by dhaylecs on Mar 26, '10 : Reason: gramatical error
  7. by   360joules
    Quote from ruby vee
    in their rush to defend themselves, the business casual folks do send the message that they believe bedside nurses are a bunch of ignorant children to be treated like such.
    prior to entering nursing, i worked as a paramedic.

    i rose to the level of director of operations of a regional office for a large ambulance service.

    part of my job description was i had to be a licensed paramedic with appropriate acls, pals, etc.

    to maintain "medical command" priveleges, i had to have so many hours on the bus, as well as successful iv starts, intubations, etc.

    therefore, i spent time directly "walking the walk" and performing the same job duties of the staff i supervised.

    that gave me much more insight into how policies i enforced actually affected the staff's daily workflow, and helped avoid the "do it my way, or else" mentality so common in nursing.

    job satisfaction was high where i worked, even before i rose to the top. it remained so, despite challenges to the system that increased workload and operations procedures.

    nursing, on the other hand, is almost the exact opposite:

    the very minute someone gets promoted out of "the pool", they take off their scrubs and never want to get within arm's length of a patient again. then they have a bunch of "great ideas" that hinder my workload, often for no good purpose.

    ems has a much flatter hierarchy, and this creates more "street cred" for the managers when laying down the law or changing procedures. (ems is also more gender-balanced -- which may be another problem in nursing.)

    "chicken dropping" rules like "no drinks at the desk", wearing tracking tags, press-gainey surveys that measure little but the "waitress" side of nursing, or adding 5 more pages to a 20 page admission packet for "research purposes" all come from middle managers who have forgotten what it's like. (i resent it. greatly. i know featherbedding when i see it, versus proactive management they keep claiming.)

    the fact the so many of them have posted here during times that indicate "work day" surfing of the internet, speaks for itself.
  8. by   Lupan
    I came from EMS and moved over to nursing after 22 years and I agree with many comments made. It is amazing that in EMS/Fire Depart. admin types are still required to spend time in the field but in nursing once out of the trenches memories fade! As a floor nurse I have seen forms and paperwork moved over to nursing because of 8-5 positions need for time to deal with their family issues and it STAYS in the floor nurses job because it improved data gathering. How about the cost of triple charting the same data/pt info in different areas so that 8-5 staff can stay in their 40 hr work week and floor nurses take the heat for less time with the pt?? The LTC facility where I work I spent about 3 hours of paper work for 1 hour of resident care dependent on skill level.
  9. by   Otessa
    Quote from Allthesmallthings
    Agree. That's a good reply to this post in general. HELlo, healthcare DOES need 9-5 people. I don't terribly want to do patients' insurance crap, or dietary, or employee scheduling, or social services, or any hospital job other than direct health care because I'm a NURSE, not a 9-5er. Different doesn't mean bad. If not for the non-direct health care workers, how much work would we get done? This is not 19th century frontier health care; we serve millions of people, and in that kind of system, you're just going to need more than MD's and nurses.
    I think the point that 'some' are making is that you are not truly a nurse (even though you have a license that states that you are...) if you do not work direct care nursing.

    There was a suggestion by someone(not going to read through all the posts) that the licenses of people that do not work direct care nursing should signify this and be called something different on their licenses.

    otessa
  10. by   Otessa
    I do agree that we should unite and not make it an 'us, them' situation. All different people need to be a part of healthcare-direct patient care and non-direct patient care nurses.

    otessa
    Last edit by Otessa on Mar 26, '10
  11. by   Otessa
    Quote from tlandrn
    I took a 20 percent pay cut moving from bedside to leadership and stayed the same pay rate moving into management. We make the same as the academic nurse educators at a college or university. Bedside makes the most money. That is why there are no pay cuts, just no raises. Working as a hospital recruiter was very enlightening!
    When I went to P.I. my pay stayed the same since it was with the same organization BUT when all the direct care staff got cost of living raises and could participate in the clinical ladder and then got 2 more raises after that (they absolutely deserved it but I worked hard too and got NOTHING....)

    If it would have been all about the money I would have gone back to bedside nursing but I believed in what I was supporting and doing on a daily basis.

    I still do and now I am in education.

    otessa

    (Oh and just in case get slammed for posting during normal 9-5 working hours-finished up my 40 hours yesterday and worked from home this AM and now off)
    Last edit by Otessa on Mar 26, '10
  12. by   nursel56
    Quote from dhaylecs
    Hi brothers and sisters in nursing.

    Let me put in a non American view on your issue.

    If you can be on CNN and justify telling me that a 1l bag of IV 0.9% Nacl and an iv line is worth $250.00 in the USA but less than $10.00 every where else in the world. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

    (Dr Satjay Gupta explained away the high cost of medical equipement and accessories in the USA to patents and development costs. he also stated that hospitals collect less than half of monies owed to them, so make them pay dont kill those who are willing to pay.)

    I know that I will take some heat but...........
    i can take it.
    Since this thread has nothing to do with the relative cost and/or quality of medical supplies and equipment, you aren't likely to get many responses. I suggest you start a separate thread, so that those who are knowledgeable about such things can reply. Perhaps you, as others have, heard some appalling statistic on CNN or read it in a Washington Post column and assume it must be true.

    We recently had a thread titled "just what the hell is going on in the US?". The topic was having reps from medical device (such as ortho) companies in the OR. When the situation was explained, the author of the thread may have felt a little embarassed for "bomb-throwing" before understanding what he or she was talking about.
  13. by   nursel56
    QUOTE=360joules;4201492]. . ."Chicken dropping" rules like "no drinks at the desk", wearing tracking tags, Press-Gainey surveys that measure little but the "waitress" side of nursing, or adding 5 more pages to a 20 page admission packet for "research purposes" all come from middle managers who have forgotten what it's like. (I resent it. Greatly. I know featherbedding when I see it, versus proactive management they keep claiming.)
    This is the type of thing I felt your original post was talking about. I am somewhat surprised at the vehemence of some of the responses here! I have been keeping a little tally in my mind of "you are part of the problem" things. (All are real , props to original authors) and the first is as you mentioned,

    1)"tracking tags" on nurses.

    2)Hand sanitizer dispensers with little hidden cameras to see who, and how often they, use sanitizer.

    3)Forbidding nurses to sit and chart at the nurses station during their 12 hour shift because it could present "an appearance problem" to family members that the nurse is a slacker.

    4)Forcing nurses to say pre-written kindergarten-level things like, "is there anything you need right now? I have the time"

    5)Managers actually hiding outside the doorway to eavesdropping to make sure the nurse says the stupid thing.

    6)Mandating nurses wear a badge or button "Ask me if I've washed my hands"

    7)Happy face stickers on nurses badge for each positive customer service evaluation, lots of happy faces=good nurse

    8)Similarly, cardboard chart in the hallway with gold stars for the same reason, viewable to people passing by. I believe this nurse mentioned also her manager cutting out foamy gingerbread men as nurses tear around working their rears off.

    Yesterday I read the "letter to Hollywood" about portraying nurses as bimbos, unprofessional, etc. It's within healthcare that we are losing more ground!! None of that stuff happened 25 years ago. Doctors are not expected to adhere to these idiotic policies, either, which makes it even worse.

    We have so many threads here about dumb policies enacted by out-of-touch people, "customer service" stuff, very few people disagree with those. I don't know why this one has touched such a nerve.

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