You are part of the problem with healthcare today if...

firstyearstudent · Mar 27, 2010

Do not consider nurses in management to be real nurses. I consider them the enemy.

firstyearstudent · Mar 27, 2010

360joules -- I think I love you.

firstyearstudent · Mar 27, 2010

One of our managers was out sick for six months and nobody noticed.

firstyearstudent · Mar 27, 2010

Okay, we did notice, because we didn't get as many annoying emails.

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Mar 27, 2010

Originally Posted by ROMANO
"Therefore, I'm one of the few that comes in when the staff is short-handed and rolls my sleeves and perform all nursing duties side by side along with my staff. In addition, I strongly disapprove those called leaders that when the tough gets going the only effort they perform is spending 45min. searching in other units for nurses to cover their own staff, and believe that they have accomplish the solution."
Romano, Good for you for being PART of the solution! You have no idea how that boosts morale. My manager will also come out to help with meds, pts. etc. She has even been known to PCT!! I love her and she is the ONLY reason I have stayed on my unit as long as I have.
I can definately understand 360joules post, perhaps it may paint with too broad a brush, but I do not think he/she was referring to EVERYONE who is an administrator or manager or some other type of "business casual" nurse. I think they were referring to those who spent very little time on the floor or who have forgotten the struggle.
As an example, we had a presentation from a holistic nurse who basically told us that if we have agitated, sundowning, dementia or CIWA patients etc. trying to rip out IV'S, foleys, NG's and such, that instead of putting them in restraints or using sedating chemicals, if we could just give them a nice massage then we could calm them down that way. This same nurse, when it was brought to her attention that we don't have time to eat, pee, or take a break, much less give agitated patients massages q hour, preceded to tell us that if we weren't taking breaks it was our own fault and we needed to learn to manage our time better and if we REALLY CARED about our patients we would find time for the massages.
Another example would be the bed coordinators calling up at 300 am to tell us they a need a tele bed and we need to d/c some pts. tele immediately. umm, I did not go to med school so if a doc ordered tele I most certainly will not take it upon myself to d/c it and I am not calling an attending at 300 am to ask them if I can so i can get chewed out and a complaint filed with my manager.
Or when I call bed desk and tell them we have 8 patients each and your trying to send us more from SI and there is NO WAY we can safely take another patient and the response I get is too bad so sad you've got an available bed so they're coming even though other units have open beds and more nurses available.
Or you've been working short staffed forever with barely enough time to pass meds and chart and you get a VIP mandate chastising everyone for not filling in patients religious preference and highest level of education completed and we will be auditing charts to make sure thats filled out. Really? is that really what you want me to be focusing on?
I often wonder when confronted with these issues were these people never nurses themselves? Do they not remember how hard it is? Instead of blaming the nurse who is 2 or 3 or 4 patients over a safe ratio for "not managing your time well" because they didn't get a break why don't those in management who have the ability to plead our cases to the powers that be do so on our behalf?
If I would have had any idea what nursing was really like, I would have NEVER entered this profession. The patients have become secondary to making sure all of the boxes are checked off on our forms. And just when you think there is nothing else you could possibly be required to fill out; here comes yet another form on some pressing critical issue like you must now document that you have asked your patient if they would recommend us to their friends and family and if so why and if not why not? Please fill out patient response verbatim and send the yellow copy to your manager, the white one file in the chart and the pink copy needs to be tubed immediately to the patient relations department and remember we're gonna be auditing those charts and verifying your answers with the patient!!
UGH!

Very nice post! I have met a nurse who is now in management that (while working the floor with us) has verbalized hating the profession and was eagerly pursuing higher education to get the F out (of bedside nursing care of course). Not surprising that 2 yrs later this individual become the ADON and now the DON. So yes, SOME do tend (and want to) forget what it was like being the bedside nurse. It is all too common to think that everyone is there for the patients, but truly it is not.

rngreenhorn · Mar 27, 2010

Humm, I am noticing there are more kudos given to the posts that "support" the manager-type. Not that this is a competion or anything. (Actually, I just thought the orginal post was a commentary on the crazy amount of bureaucracy and red-tape in healthcare today).

I can only assume then, that the "managers" have more time to "surf the net." Or perhap they feel need to "justifiy" their position with passive aggressive posts on an anonymous message board. :0)

PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN · Mar 27, 2010

Ouch.

I hurt for our profession as we beat up on each other.

Can't we stop?

lamazeteacher · Mar 27, 2010

Do not consider nurses in management to be real nurses. I consider them the enemy.

Working as an Employee Health Nurse a few years ago, I naively though that meant that I was the employees' resource for care and concern, to get insurance going when they were injured and be sure they were protected against diseases and mishaps. Until it was rubbed on my face, I didn't realize that admionistration thought I was their tool to disprove their responsibility for employees' misfortunes. I was thrilled that I could purchase equipment that was ergonomically correct for employees - until I realized that administration wasn't thrilled with that, and indeed saw me as THEIR enemy, while the employees shared that view that I was THEIR enemy. So "middle" management is set up to never win!

Now as a first year student, where did you get the information that I'd somehow missed, in 50 years of practising nursing - twice in the past as an Employee Health Nurse, and 3 times as an Infection Control Nurse? Is the present mind set that everyone other than staff nurses are the enemy, to assuage the insecurity presented by the financial/economic woes? Or are those with advanced authority envied or too authoritarian? I've always respected those who had climbed their career ladder. Will you want to always be a staff nurse, so you won't be hated? :confused:

lamazeteacher · Mar 27, 2010

the nurse who was asked not to sit down to chart quit her job, recently updated her thread saying she is very happy in her new job and has no regrets. it makes me just spittin' mad she had to make such a choice.
good for her!!! she proved that there are jobs out there, and sent a message to administration that their unreasonable rules result in loss of staff, which is very expensive. it seems to me that it's time to get the labor relations board into your facility to evaluate the appropriateness/legality of disallowing charting during working hours (unless they do favor doing it while standing, which causes stasis of circulation in legs, leading to leg varicosities, etc. for which they could be found responsible). and contact the new national nurses' union!!
the scripting that appears to have no basis in reality, i imagine is ignored or adapted by the nurses. i feel like "is there anything i can do for you? i have the time", which is the most common mandated statement i have seen, is particularly perverse when combined with cutbacks and staffing shortages.
you could follow that by telling patients and families that you really aren't at loose ends, but administration wants you to say exactly that, anyway. then cite the things you have to do before your shift is over. then look for a job somewhere that you will be appreciated. it sounds like you work at a nursing home...... take your power back!!
honestly, i see many people now-a -days defeated and resigned to these things as inevitable. jobs are scarce right now. lots of people just can't afford, i mean literally can't afford, to rock the boat. but can they afford the loss of self esteem that being treated that way brings? this may also be the reason for the tracking devices being accepted. one nurse here said she had no problem with it because it helped management assign resources effectively. personally, i have a more cynical view as to why they want nurses to wear the things. ?voyeurism?
one thing i forgot to add to the list is "hourly rounding". first, as with the others, it assumes the nurse is a wayward, surly child who cannot be trusted to conduct her/himself appropriately without surveillance measures, or decide how often to check her patients, but they actually have nurses initial a sheet of paper like you would if you worked cleaning the restrooms at target!! professional? give me a break!!

you could call taking vitals, rounding, as well as checking trays to see how your patients are eating, as that too. by charting the things you do for each patient each hour, should be sufficient evidence that you're doing your job. signing the list is not appropriate for professional nurses.

the power trip described in your post is aberrant, and must be reported, for it to stop. it seems to me that whoever dreamed the things up, has been very frustrated with some staff not doing what is expected in their work, but the way to deal with that is to confront the issue in meetings, working out a plan with the staff for everyone to carry their loads as a team. :nurse:

finegirl · Mar 27, 2010

LOL..

wanderlust99 · Mar 27, 2010

wait a second here, I thought red was for oral and blue was for lady partsl temps

uh oh

HappyNurse2005, RN · Mar 27, 2010

i may wear business casual, have my own desk in an office, work m-f, etc but I am just as much of an RN as you. I am part of the solution as much as you are, as much of any of us is.

(i am a community health nurse who goes into the homes of poverty level families with young children for health/parenting/safety/life/dental/chronic illness support and education)

In fact, if we were all bedside nurses, we'd be in a world of trouble. the nursing world needs managers, needs research nurses, needs nurses in offices who don't see patients to make the nursing world go round. Someone has to do the managerial work-if not the manager, then teh floor nurses woudl just have even more work to do.

why can't we support each other, adn be glad that nursing offers many opportunities and career paths?

There will be bad seeds/problems in any nursing job. crappy managers-sure! over paid nursing executives? absolutely! but there will also be floor nurses who arent worth a darn, either. "part of the problem with healthcare" isn't limited to non-floor nurses, and the "solution" isn't limited to floor nurses either.

i've done both, and think that they both have tremendous value.