woman dies in ER waiting room (article) - page 3

the first few paragraphs, click link for rest of story (too long to cut/paste) interesting. says she was in for abd pain 3x in 3 days,but never what they did for her test wise, or what they... Read More

  1. by   maryloufu
    I do not work in the ED- but just like everyone else I have an opinion. ED nurses do have to have a toughness to them because they do see a lot of drug seekers. They also have to be able to withstand the crap they get from people who really are sick but had to wait hours and hours to be seen because they are not emergent. I am sure that toughness helps when a abused child or a raped teenager comes in for treatment. The ED nurses that I have met are awesome and they are able to withstand things I don't think I could. It is terrible what happened to this lady but I don't think we can just attribute it to the nurses. How about- we need a different system where urgent care is handled in sliding scale clinics so that our EDs are less clogged up with nonemergencies.
  2. by   SuesquatchRN
    What I want to know is why, as a nation, do we give a darn who uses drugs? Make them legal, let the drug seekers get high and keep the criminals out of it, and when someone comes in and says they hurt help them.

    We are such a bunch of judgmental Puritans. Goodness. Who cares if someone wants to be high? I certainly don't. Just stay away from the steering wheel.
  3. by   TazziRN
    I gotta jump in here. Yes, ER nurses can be judgemental, [B]but most of us still treat the pt.[B/] We are human just like everyone else, we have opinions and judgements, but what's at the core here is not how the triage nurse felt, but how she acted. Most of us would not have treated that woman the way she was treated. I resent the statements posted here that implies all of us would have done the same thing.

    Not only that, but King Drew has a horrible history of pt mistreatment. Most facilities would not have tolerated this.
  4. by   chuck1234
    This is a "horrible act."
  5. by   maryloufu
    Quote from Suesquatch
    What I want to know is why, as a nation, do we give a darn who uses drugs? Make them legal, let the drug seekers get high and keep the criminals out of it, and when someone comes in and says they hurt help them.

    We are such a bunch of judgmental Puritans. Goodness. Who cares if someone wants to be high? I certainly don't. Just stay away from the steering wheel.

    Sue I do see your point here- but if we do open the flood gates and let people just have at it with recreational drugs- we have to have limits- like you said- don't get behind the wheel- and how about go ahead and turn your kids over to the state- and don't come within 5 feet of power tools or guns. When I am at work and someone tells me they are having pain and they are breathing ok- I go get them their prn. I don't care if they are a frequent flier with a history of dealing crack. But there again- they aren't watching their 3 year old or operating a crane while they are in my hospital.
  6. by   jojotoo
    Quote from maryloufu
    I do not work in the ED- but just like everyone else I have an opinion. ED nurses do have to have a toughness to them because they do see a lot of drug seekers. They also have to be able to withstand the crap they get from people who really are sick but had to wait hours and hours to be seen because they are not emergent. I am sure that toughness helps when a abused child or a raped teenager comes in for treatment. The ED nurses that I have met are awesome and they are able to withstand things I don't think I could. It is terrible what happened to this lady but I don't think we can just attribute it to the nurses. How about- we need a different system where urgent care is handled in sliding scale clinics so that our EDs are less clogged up with nonemergencies.

    Thanks for acknowledging the abuse that I (as an ER RN) go through each shift. From the foul verbal abuse and threats to the actual physical attacks, my shifts are always a challenge to my professionalism.

    One poster asked how the staff could walk over somebody on the floor. Don't judge until you've seen how crowded an ER can get. If every gurney, every chair in the ER is filled, even the crash bed has a patient in it - where do you want me to put the patient on the floor? Now remember, people lay on the floor all the time - to show me how "sick" they are.

    Why did the staff call the police about this patient? About once or twice a week we have a patient that refuses to leave the ER upon discharge. Why? The patient didn't get the meds (narcotics) that they wanted, didn't get a taxi voucher, didn't like the diagnosis from the MD, doesn't have a place to go, wants to wait for breakfast, doesn't have a ride, etc.

    After reasoning with these patients as much as possible, sometimes the only option left to me is to call in-house security. That patient HAS to leave so that the next one (maybe the one on the floor) can come in!

    With all that said, the system failed Ms. Rodriguez. Why? Because the system itself is failing! What happened to Ms. Rodriguez is not an isolated event. And these types of events are going to escalate.

    So what are we going to do? I don't know.

    Before each shift, I tell my team that our goal is to keep everybody breathing for the next twelve hours. As to the team that took care of Ms. Rodriguez - but for the grace of God, go I.
  7. by   RNfaster
    Quote from maryloufu
    I do not work in the ED- but just like everyone else I have an opinion. ED nurses do have to have a toughness to them because they do see a lot of drug seekers. They also have to be able to withstand the crap they get from people who really are sick but had to wait hours and hours to be seen because they are not emergent. I am sure that toughness helps when a abused child or a raped teenager comes in for treatment. The ED nurses that I have met are awesome and they are able to withstand things I don't think I could. It is terrible what happened to this lady but I don't think we can just attribute it to the nurses. How about- we need a different system where urgent care is handled in sliding scale clinics so that our EDs are less clogged up with nonemergencies.
    Good point. I don't think this situation is black-and-white. Too simply punish individuals (who do seem to have some culpability here) without examining the system that fostered the actions would be very shortsighted, indeed.

    I think that the conditions in this particular ER very likely were a major factor in the negative outcome. --It is in one of the worst parts of Los Angeles...great deal of poverty, needy individuals who likely use the ER for non-emergent situations, higher than average numbers of substance abusers and violent constituents (higher rates of violence, gang-related activity, murder, etc)....very tough area.

    ER nurses that work there have got to be tough. And I don't imagine there are too many nurses that would want to work there. (If they close this hospital, where the heck are these folks going to go for care? Tough situation...no good immediate and easy solution...) I think the system is likely more culpable than the individuals within it. --The system should be addressed, and the workers counseled and if investigators deem it necessary, reassigned, etc. But to make a scapegoat of one or two individuals in a case where the system (at multiple levels --hospital and societal) is flawed? Not a good thing as I see it.
    Last edit by RNfaster on May 21, '07
  8. by   CHATSDALE
    i this hospital has a bad track record maybe they are really responsible, it seems to me that a person with a perforated bowel would have sufficient sx if properly accessed
    can't see that these police officers are responsibile for this womans death because they are suppose to take the staffs judgement which in 99.9 of the cases would be correct
    as for the CRAP crap. i had cellulitis/phelbitis for about a year. it would flare up like every couple of weeks, went to md got anitbiotics told to take aspirin [as antcoagulent] keep foot elevated, this frequently but on several occasions the pain would become intense, i have had two pulmonary embolus and i am really antsy when something happens anyway i had to go to er 3 or 4 times during that year..pcp does see emergency situations at the clinic says that if problem is serious would have to be transported anyway and it takes time away from scheduled patients
    if is was being judged based on previous visits [and i am sure that i was]
    i would rank low on score..
    we has a posted here some time ago and this guy went into er at a charity hospital again and again over a two week period, er triage said 'aare you here again' and pull out her 10 pt pain gauge, the guy had a new job he was trying to keep, he had no insurance had to use that facility, finally he was dx with acute prostatitis and admitted
    could have been treated and healed in the time it took them to take him seriously
  9. by   chuck1234
    I have a solution...
    Just place a sign in the ED...
    It says...Some doctors and nurses in this department are judgmental...Coming in to get the treatment at your own risk.
    This will give the doctors and nurses an EXCELLENT reason not to do a good job.
    And a lawsuit will be avoided...
    This is just my cheap 99-cents sense!!!!
    Last edit by chuck1234 on May 21, '07
  10. by   TrudyRN
    The triage nurse should be sued, as should her employer. The money settlement won't restore the patient's family's wife, mother, sister, daughter, cousin, aunt, granddaughter, and niece but that's how settle such scores here in America.

    I hope the Board of Nursing in California goes after this nurse, too, big time. At the very least, she should have had her seen again. How utterly unthinkable that someone in this day and age should have to die like a dog because ER staff, including the doctor(s) who missed the Dx when they did see her, were incompetent. Dear God, help us all. This is absolutely horrible. Where was a Nursing Supervisor? An Administrator? Didn't anyone think to call a Manager or a supervising physician?
  11. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from angel337
    If i were the ED nurse working in that triage, i would prepare for a career change.
    Not to mention jail time.
  12. by   chuck1234
    Quote from TrudyRN
    Not to mention jail time.
    Not to mention that nurse will go straight to hell....
    Last edit by chuck1234 on May 21, '07
  13. by   Altra
    Excellent posts by jojotoo & sonoran.

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