Will Non-BSN nurses ever be fired? - page 3

I'm entering nursing at a time when diploma, ADN, and BSN are all entry level educations for nursing. I don't want to get a BSN. But will there ever come a time when the ADN nurse will be fired for... Read More

  1. by   loerith
    IMHO formal education has little to nothing to do with the competence of a nurse or the quality of care a patient receives. I have worked with experienced diploma LPNs who are better nurses than many MSN's will ever be.



    Love and Peace,
    loerith
  2. by   webbiedebbie
    I agree with the above post. What is wrong with having a "clinical ladder" for education? CNA to LPN to ADN to BSN to Masters?

    I myself do my own education. I have been a nurse for 15 years. I concentrate on areas that pertain to my area of expertise, and others as well. For instance...diabetes. There have been changes in this and I keep up, myself, at my own pace. I even do CEU's, though my state does not require it.

    I have worked with management (BSN and higher) who forget what patient care is really all about. We are on the floors getting our hands DIRTY! I feel it is my responsibility to learn all I can to give the best care to my patients.
  3. by   canoehead
    I response to the original poster, I heard and worried about losing my job because I didn't have a BSN in 1989. They were saying that in 5 years all non-BSN nurses would be out. Here it is 2004, and they are crying for nurses, RN/BSN/whatever. So I don't think you have anything to worry about.

    I originally did my RN, then went back for my BSN, so have experienced both programs. IMO the BSN was less than useless. It kept me from getting the real education that was to be had within the hospital walls, sucked me dry emotionally and financially. I did the whole program and not once had a clinical experience where the instructor could evaluate my nursing skills- but I can research and write a paper on anything. Other than getting a few publications to put on my resume, what's the point of that?

    IMO the BSN program was absolute crap.
  4. by   AcosmicRN
    Quote from canoehead
    I response to the original poster, I heard and worried about losing my job because I didn't have a BSN in 1989. They were saying that in 5 years all non-BSN nurses would be out. Here it is 2004, and they are crying for nurses, RN/BSN/whatever. So I don't think you have anything to worry about.

    I originally did my RN, then went back for my BSN, so have experienced both programs. IMO the BSN was less than useless. It kept me from getting the real education that was to be had within the hospital walls, sucked me dry emotionally and financially. I did the whole program and not once had a clinical experience where the instructor could evaluate my nursing skills- but I can research and write a paper on anything. Other than getting a few publications to put on my resume, what's the point of that?

    IMO the BSN program was absolute crap.
    Dear Canoehead,

    Thanks for the honest appraisal. I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm anti-education, because I'm not. It's just that I already have a bachelors and I don't want another one. I think it's good you have a BSN. I think, if nothing else, it gives you the confidence to trust in your own judgment. It doesn't replace being a good nurse, as I'm sure you agree. But a bachelors prepared nurse, especially a BSN, definitely means you have something on the ball.

    Acosmic
  5. by   canoehead
    True, it takes a lot of motivation to start and to finish a degree. But we should have educational programs that make sense for nurses working at the bedside. My program was more for an administrator (hack!)
  6. by   teeituptom
    wont happen in my lifetime
  7. by   Brob
    Hi All,

    I am a nursing student in a hospital based AD program. I just read an article in the last issue of advance for nurses magazine about a proposed law in New York State that would mandate that a nurse get a BSN within 10 yrs of graduating school or they would have to practice under an LPN license. I imagine if it passed other states would soon follow.

    In some respects I am against it because it was being proposed under the guise that ADN nurses would no longer continue their education and I believe getting certifications, in service training and CE credits will be more productive than another 50 credits in non nursing subjects and approx 9 credits in actual nursing classes to complete my BSN.

    I do intend on completing my BSN only because I do feel masters programs for nurses are beneficial and you need to have it to get in a program but I really feel that for bedside nursing getting more certifications and the like are a more productive and useful way to go initially after school.

    Just a quick THANK YOU to all the nurses who take the time to teach the students they come in contact with a little something!!! Love ya all!!!
  8. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from Brob
    Hi All,

    I am a nursing student in a hospital based AD program. I just read an article in the last issue of advance for nurses magazine about a proposed law in New York State that would mandate that a nurse get a BSN within 10 yrs of graduating school or they would have to practice under an LPN license. I imagine if it passed other states would soon follow.

    In some respects I am against it because it was being proposed under the guise that ADN nurses would no longer continue their education and I believe getting certifications, in service training and CE credits will be more productive than another 50 credits in non nursing subjects and approx 9 credits in actual nursing classes to complete my BSN.

    I do intend on completing my BSN only because I do feel masters programs for nurses are beneficial and you need to have it to get in a program but I really feel that for bedside nursing getting more certifications and the like are a more productive and useful way to go initially after school.

    Just a quick THANK YOU to all the nurses who take the time to teach the students they come in contact with a little something!!! Love ya all!!!
    Amen... just goes to prove that LPNs are not the only ones who believe you continue to learn after graduation and that college credits do not a qualified nurse make!
  9. by   Salus
    "Nurses want to be proffesionals, not technical"

    Dixiedi, could you please elaborate on the above.

    Thank you.
  10. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from Salus69
    "Nurses want to be proffesionals, not technical"

    Dixiedi, could you please elaborate on the above.

    Thank you.
    First let me say ... I do not mean every nurse or any particular group of nurses. However, the ANA has been striving for RNs to be referred to as Professional Nurses and LPNs and ADN RNs to be referred to as Techinal Nurses.
    Now, if you've read some of the other threads, particularly the one bashing the dickens out of the ANA you would probably agree with me that when I said "nurses" I probably wasn't referring to any real nurses, only those who speak for us.

    In MHO for nurses to actually be professionals and not technical pt care providers (how's that for making up a simple definition, LOL) would be for entry level to be at the masters level. Now really, how many masters prepared anybody's are going to do bedside nursing.

    We can behave in a professional manner, have a professional outlook as far as our carreer choice is concerned, have aprofessional attitude toward my employer and intereact with my pt and his/her family in a professional manner, etc etc etc.... BUT, I am still work under the orders of a true professional, the Doc (etc.)

    There are nurses who are professionals, the have advanced practice certs/degrees.

    I have read posts in other thread and elsewhere where NP complain they don't make nearly what MDs do. Well, DAH... even if that NP has his/her PHd she still not attend college to obtain a BS? (pre-med or other), then Med School, then residency... A true Professional has a degree higher than a BSN.

    No matter how educated we become, we are caregivers. We follow the MDs orders. It's real darn handy if you know when and how to question those orders, but fact is, when we do disagree with a Docs orders, we have to take it to him/her. We can not just change it. We are not the professional, the Doc is. We are the caregivers attempting to (this is certainly no insult to any BSN on floor duty) claim we are professionals.

    The definition of professional has changed over the years to include anyone with a defined carreer. I'm from the old school and can not, even with todays' definition consider the guy flippin burgers for 40 years a professional, nor can I consider a nurse who must follow Docs orders a professional. We are carreer minded, professionally behaved technically minded care givers. (How many docs do you know who can even set up a simple pump?, ANY of our assorted pumps!?)

    This is pretty long and I have tried to be clear but I am sure it's just as clear as mud. Don't mean for it to be, but it is a very thin line between true professional and a carreer minded individual with a professional behavior; which is what I hope we all are.
  11. by   AcosmicRN
    Professional? What is that? Is it someone licensed by the state? Barbers are licensed by the state. Is it someone who makes money at what they do? That's the burger flipper. Is it someone who is completely autonomous in the decisions they make while performing their work? That's every self-employed person. Is it anyone who has to have a bachelor's or higher to work? Are newspaper editors considered professionals? Are FBI agents?

    If you take one definition, you open flood gates for all kinds of job titles. If you take another definition, you open different flood gates.

    Is a professional only an MD, Lawyer, CPA? Is a vocation only for priests? Perhaps a professional is anyone who puts letters after their signature? Or is it someone who directly bills a client for services rather than being paid by a third party (such as a hospital).

    I am an R.N. I sign it after my name, even when I'm writing checks or signing credit card receipts. My job is listed under the section of my state law called "The Professions." I have a state board that licenses me. I have malpractice insurance. I get paid for what I do. I have social respect and status. I assess patients, make diagnoses, plan interventions, conduct interventions, and evaluate those interventions. Furthermore, I am an essential element of health care. And not just a member of a team: the role of MD and RN are the two components that define healthcare. You can't have just one or the other without the whole thing coming apart. In a hospital, everyone is either an RN or an MD or working to support and assist one or the other. Nursing is older than medicine. Doctors evolved from nursing, not the other way around.

    I'd say that makes me a professional if ever there was such a thing.

    Acosmic

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