Why is it... (nurses constantly throw jabs at physicans)

leslie :-D · May 31, 2004

Okay, I got the drift the first time around leslie. Ya just had to fill in your own little misspelled words too, right?:chuckle

:rolleyes: :) what am i going to do with you fran?? i thought i was the only slow one. :chuckle

FranEMTnurse, CNA, LPN, EMT-I · May 31, 2004

:) what am i going to do with you fran?? i thought i was the only slow one. :chuckle

It's the anemia, I tell ya, It's the anemia. It has now fogged up my thinking. Aargh! Toodle oooh!

StreetRN · Jun 4, 2004

Over the past 21 years, I have worked with many compassionate, educated physicians. I have also worked with many non compassionate, ego based physicians. From a nursing perspective, it is highly frustrating to see patient care decisions made for the wrong reasons. (i.e. insurance status/physician convenience/peer pressure) I have had patients die because they showed up in the ED when the physician was having a bad day. I have had patients die because the physician was afraid of being sued. I have had patients die because the physician just couldn't see the big picture. I have worked with impaired physicians. Quite possibly the bashing comes from instances like these. In each case, the physicians did not see anything wrong with the decisions; however, they did seem upset about the outcomes when the lawyers came calling. The face of medicine is changing. What was once a noble field, dedicated to easing pain and suffering has become a superficial job, dedicated to social status and oriented by greed. Even their wives talk of the bad attitude, the constant bashing, the ego trips, the pressure to be "rich and thin". It's a sad commentary on health care.

.

Let me preface this by saying I am around nurses, and nursing students more so I don't get to hear the other side but that being said.....
Why do nurses constantly feel the need to throw jabs at physicans at every turn. "Dr. never listen" "that resident did this" That medical student.."
This is a form of professional insecurity. It showls a lack of professionalism. If we want to show our professionalism, we should respect other professions. And I have said this before and heard " well they should respect us" Are we in the 3rd grade? Our competency should speak for itself, we don't need to degrade ouselves by whining and acting like babies.
Just my .02

katscan · Jun 4, 2004

I just read this whole thread and am saddened at the pokes and jabs directed to the original poster when she(I am using she for convenience) was only asking a question /expressing her opinion. From her standpoint, her thoughts are her reality. To make comments to her to "grow up" is unfair. This same kind of attitude was directed to one of our beginning school nurses and she was really discouraged. Some of the older nurses took her remarks as being ignorant and idealistic. They laughed at her and cut her down behind her back. Let face it folks, we ALL make idealistic or ignorant comments at times--No matter what age or degree of experience we have. I tried to support her and encourage her. As I am doing now. Things can be bad in nursing in "the real world" as we know. Who knows, maybe NP2Be will be one of the ones to help promote change.I hope so. Also, I have been a nurse since '73 and am 53 years old, in case anyone wants to challenge my age and/and or experience.

leslie :-D · Jun 4, 2004

if it were as cut and dry as that, then there wouldn't be the skeptism. but the undertone of the poster was insulting and presumptuous....at least that is how it was perceived. i am not disagreeing that sometimes the remarks are a bit ascerbic but on the flip side, when a student nurse comes across as a know all, be all type then there has to be a redirection to reality. period.

loerith · Jun 4, 2004

Been an ICU nurse for years. OR was a nightmare. The docs there treat the nurses worse than any area I have ever worked in.

There are some very competent, friendly. courteous doctors. But the competency part seems to be a bigger problem for me personally than the politeness/courtesy or lack thereof.

The best way I know to explain what I mean by lack of competency by doctors in general is by this. When I used to orient new nurses in the ICU I would tell them; "you are a shield between your patient and the doctor."

Need I say more?

Love and Peace,

loerith

katscan · Jun 4, 2004

How one reads a post and interprets it is individual. To me, she was not insulting or presumptious. Naive maybe? Inexperienced? Therefor, I don't say that I answered in a "cut and dry " fashion. People are free to make comments according to their inner responses. Not everyone on this board had your perception. If she did come across as a know it all to some, I honestly don't think this was her intent. After all, who wants to get on a board and be cut down as she has been? To her credit, she did answer almost all of the posts directed to her, both good and bad.

leslie :-D · Jun 4, 2004

How one reads a post and interprets it is individual. To me, she was not insulting or presumptious. Naive maybe? Inexperienced? Therefor, I don't say that I answered in a "cut and dry " fashion. People are free to make comments according to their inner responses. Not everyone on this board had your perception. If she did come across as a know it all to some, I honestly don't think this was her intent. After all, who wants to get on a board and be cut down as she has been? To her credit, she did answer almost all of the posts directed to her, both good and bad.

and it IS individual perceptions, which many shared the same....i'm glad she has you for an advocate. good luck.

Q. · Jun 4, 2004

I just read this whole thread and am saddened at the pokes and jabs directed to the original poster when she(I am using she for convenience) was only asking a question /expressing her opinion. From her standpoint, her thoughts are her reality. To make comments to her to "grow up" is unfair. This same kind of attitude was directed to one of our beginning school nurses and she was really discouraged. Some of the older nurses took her remarks as being ignorant and idealistic. They laughed at her and cut her down behind her back. Let face it folks, we ALL make idealistic or ignorant comments at times--No matter what age or degree of experience we have. I tried to support her and encourage her. As I am doing now. Things can be bad in nursing in "the real world" as we know. Who knows, maybe NP2Be will be one of the ones to help promote change.I hope so. Also, I have been a nurse since '73 and am 53 years old, in case anyone wants to challenge my age and/and or experience.

Excellent post. Some of the posts here that I read made my blood boil; I've seen this type of insecure, elitist behavior before to new grads and students and it's just deplorable. It's behavior like that, and it's behavior like the OP was commenting on, that contributes to poor relationships and thus POOR PATIENT OUTCOMES. There are numerous studies out there documenting the role the nurse-physician relationship - and quite frankly - the nurse-nurse relationship plays on poor patient outcomes and patient safety.

Frankly, whether or not I agree with the OP is beside the issue. What I always find fascinating are stagnant, crisped out nurses who like to state:

"Go be a nurse for [insert # of qualifying years here - totally subjective] and THEN see if your attitude is the same" ie: you'll become bitter, old, cranky, rude and unprofessional like me.

God, I hope not.

.

leslie :-D · Jun 4, 2004

i just reread this thread in its' entirety. except for one blatantly rude poster mixed w/a couple of petty criticisms on typos, i have found the responses to be straighforward and genuine but not cryptic. you're always going to find at least 1 rude post per thread. but when the majority's perceptions are so similiar, there has to be some validity to it. either most of us are incredibly stupid or the original poster of this thread was not articulating what was intended. and it does appear that no matter where you go on this board, or in life, there's always someone who's just so ready to argue, regardless of the debate.

FranEMTnurse, CNA, LPN, EMT-I · Jun 4, 2004

i just reread this thread in its' entirety. except for one blatantly rude poster mixed w/a couple of petty criticisms on typos, i have found the responses to be straighforward and genuine but not cryptic. you're always going to find at least 1 rude post per thread. but when the majority's perceptions are so similiar, there has to be some validity to it. either most of us are incredibly stupid or the original poster of this thread was not articulating what was intended. and it does appear that no matter where you go on this board, or in life, there's always someone who's just so ready to argue, regardless of the debate.

Ain't that the truth though. Hey leslie, are you gonna visit us on the Friday thread?

mattsmom81 · Jun 4, 2004

What I always find fascinating are stagnant, crisped out nurses who like to state:"Go be a nurse for [insert # of qualifying years here - totally subjective] and THEN see if your attitude is the same" ie: you'll become bitter, old, cranky, rude and unprofessional like me.

God, I hope not.

Being realistic means we must do what we can amidst chaos which is not caused by us...this is the reality of nursing today. If a nurse is bitter, cranky...well perhaps they are having a bad day/month/year/life...stop personalizing so much is my advice. It's their problem after all; don't take it on.
Personally I am past the point of needing to compete with others, thank God. I try to stay away (as much as possible) from these types as they are an energy drain. We are ultimately responsibile for our happiness and success...those around us owe us precious little.
Mature people don't feel such a need to critique and compete; and to me that is what the OP was doing. Thus the responses from real nurses; those who tire of being critiqued particularly by those who haven't walked a mile in our duty shoes.
It's amazing to ME how judgmental so many new grads are intitially; but how quickly they learn how different 'real world' nursing is and how poorly their school prepared them.
Good luck to all students and new grads: but remember YOUR attitudes translate to your seasoned coworkers too. A little understanding of our shared human condition goes a long way in nursing, where there are mostly good people trying their best in my experience.