Why Do I Care?

When one new nurse jumps ship after just a few months, it's none of my business. When it becomes a pattern, it hurts everyone: management, the patients, the new grads themselves and (believe it or not) the crusty old bat tasked with precepting them. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

Why do I care that new nurses leave our unit after less than two years -- often after less than one year? Why do I care, when they're adults. They're going to have to live with the consequences of being out of work, or having a resume that reflects job hopping or never learning the basics of nursing because they never stay in one place long enough to be able to learn them. Why is it any of my business?

When one new nurse makes an ill-considered decision with consequences that she personally is going to have to live with, it's none of my business. No matter how much I like the new nurse, no matter how much I was looking forward to working with her when she was off orientation, it's really not my business. One of my orientees quit while I was off work with medical leave. Later, we met for lunch and she told me her reasons for leaving. "I know you like me, Ruby. But Mary (her other preceptor) didn't, and I was afraid I was going to get fired." When pressed, she had no reason for believing that Mary didn't like her, or that she was in danger of being fired. She was just anxious, and without me there to smooth the processes for her and alleviate her anxiety about how she was doing, she couldn't hack it. It probably reflects badly upon me that I was her lifeline and I hadn't managed to keep her expectations realistic. I was so disappointed -- but none of my business. My former orientee and I are now casual friends, meeting occasionally for lunch and conversation. I enjoy the relationship, but would have enjoyed it more if we still worked together.

When the majority of our new nurses leave in less than two years, that's a problem that affects all of us. The majority of nurses that come to our unit do so to get ICU experience for their CRNA school applications. We all know it, even if they don't announce it to the world on their first day (as many do.) Others come here because it looks good on their resume, or to get tuition reimbursement for their NP programs or because their SO is in residency here. Within their first month on the unit, most of our new nurses give us an approximate exit date that has nothing to do with our staffing, our patient population, how we are to work with as colleagues or anything else that has anything to do with anything other than their own goals. There may be a cure for that sort of thing, but not at the staff nurse level.

We have a 30 bed ICU, so our staff is large. That means that we are CONSTANTLY orienting new nurses, and because our core staff of seasoned nurses is finite, that means if you've been there for more than two years, you're going to be precepting. Of course that means that people who should NOT be precepting are forced to anyway. People who are lazy or poor teachers or difficult to get along with are foisted upon new grads as their preceptors -- which isn't good for anyone. But even those seasoned nurses who LOVE new staff and LOVE to teach get burned out with constant precepting.

Precepting is difficult. It's so much easier to just go in there and assess that patient yourself rather than teach a new nurse how to do an assessment, discuss her findings and how they differ with yours (if they do) and what potentially that could mean. It easier to give the dang meds yourself than to wait around while someone else laboriously checks them out of Pyxis, looks them up, considers whether they're appropriate to give right now given whatever else is going on, and then gives them or holds them and notifies the provider. If you're doing it right, precepting a new nurse is one of the most difficult challenges you'll ever have as a nurse.

Those of us who remain at the bedside, mostly do it because we love taking care of our patients. Precepting means that we aren't actually doing the work of taking care of our patients. We're teaching someone else to do it, holding their hands, providing feedback that is hopefully in a format they can understand and accept, documenting their progress and having meetings with management and other preceptors to keep tabs on how they're doing. We're not taking care of our patients, which is what we stayed at the bedside to do.

Constant turnover of new nurses means that we rarely get a break from precepting. And when after all of our hard work with a new nurse, that new nurse leaves as soon as she can, that's demoralizing. In some cases, when you've nurtured a new nurse and mentored them and you know they're the perfect fit for our unit, it's heartbreaking.

And then someone calls us mean and nasty, implies that we're just jealous of opportunities we haven't grasped for ourselves or says that the only reason we're against job hopping is because we're old dinosaurs who don't want anyone to have things better than we did. I have the job I wanted -- my dreaaaaaammmmm job. I'm happy with my life, with my job, with my colleagues. I'm exactly where I want to be. But I sure wish a few others would look a little harder, see what a great job this is and what a great place to work and stay awhile!

As a New Grad seeking employment for almost 9 months now, I couldn't imagine turning down ANY kind of opportunity like that regardless of the circumstances, where I live it is beyond tough to find a job. I will be so grateful when I get an opportunity like that, I could definitely understand where your frustrations are coming from!

If you have been searching for a nursing position for 9 months then something is wrong. There are thousands and thousands of nursing positions needed to be filled across the country. If you really want a job in nursing you need to go out and get it or have someone look at your resume.

If you have been searching for a nursing position for 9 months then something is wrong. There are thousands and thousands of nursing positions needed to be filled across the country. If you really want a job in nursing you need to go out and get it or have someone look at your resume.

I think it really depends on your location.

Nursing jobs are pretty easy to find in my neck of the woods, but I hear states like California this isn't the case.

Specializes in nursing education.
Other than for the writer's initial shock at the concept, I don't think the article was disdainful of hiring for attitude, training for skill. I'll have to go back and read the whole thread.

RubyVee, I did go back to read TheCommuter's Hard and Soft Skills article and I think you are correct-her initial reaction to the concept was surprise, but she seems to have agreed with it after hearing him out. But the crux of the matter is this:

..employees can be trained to perform the hard skills, but the soft skills come from within. For instance, an organization can easily teach someone to apply a wound vac machine, but they cannot train this same nurse to have empathy for others, communicate effectively, or change the selfish personality that she has displayed since middle childhood.

Soft skills are important enough to make or break a person's career because, although a pleasant person can thrive in the workplace without a high intelligence level, a very intelligent individual with hard skills will struggle in his or her professional life without polished soft skills.

That is not saying, either, that every nurse is going to thrive in the ICU or another high-tech environment, or that every nurse's skill set is the same. (I like to say that nursing is big enough for all of us, at least interest- and skill-wise). What it is saying, though, is that the hard skills/tasks are taught in nursing school and then polished and added to on the job, in whatever setting the nurse is hired.

Soft skills are comprised of the personality traits, positivity, cordiality, work ethic, dependability, workplace etiquette, behavioral competence, emotional intelligence, reliability, communication style, personal habits, optimistic attitude, interaction, and unspoken social graces that come together to render someone a desirable employee.

I can't agree with this more. Bad attitudes are far more contagious than good ones. A once-good workplace that becomes toxic is difficult to turn around again.

Where I live it is not unusual for new grads to be looking for jobs for months up to or over a year. Most facilities around this area will no hire new grads. Period. Relocating, as some have pointed out, is not always an option.

As far as nurses leaving jobs w/in a short period of time, again, I can only reference the area where I live but most nurses end up leaving because what they were promised/agreed to (certain shift, pay, whatever) often ends up being changed. That is the #1 complaint I hear and why many resign or end up quitting. Right or wrong, not everyone who became a nurse was "born" to be one or is willing to put nursing before anything else in their lives - I like nursing, have been in it a long time, have my BSN and an MS and enjoy working BUT work will never be #1 for me - it's a part of my life but not my life. I would rather live modestly then spend endless hours at work, rarely seeing my family or being able to enjoy life a little. For me, life is too short to dedicate myself to an employer above all else. I don't begrudge those that do - it's their choice - but don't judge me if I don't feel the same.

Nurses also leave because they realize their dream of working ER, ICU, med/surg whatever is a lot different in reality than the fantasy they had or what they experienced when in nursing school. It's better nurse realize he/she is in over his/her head or simply knows the flavor of nursing they are in is not for them and move onto something that is more along their interest lines and free up a position for someone else. I work in home health..someone I work with recently (last 6 months) came on board. This nurse worked for the previous 11 yrs in a doctors office..she is overwhelmed and extremely stressed out by home health, the charting system, ever changing schedule, and more. Do I think she will last? No. It's not because she is a lousy, job hopping nurse, it's because this area of nursing doesn't fit w/her needs/personality/abilities..she was mislead by a few people early on that home health is easy and your days are short, you are kept close to your home as far as traveling, no weekends, no call.. she has learned its the opposite of all that.

I don't know what the answer is but I know that if she decides to leave, even though I spent some time training her, I won't take it personal or wish her ill will. People leaving jobs - even after short periods of time - is the norm now - like it or not.

If particular organizations or particular units cannot keep nurses, management should examine the situation (truly anonymous surveys) and implement a retention plan (internal growth opportunities, better pay, better retirement options, better access to equipment/supplies, better scheduling, better staffing, better training).

I think it is unwise for any nurse, new grad, or not, to stay put when there are better situations to be had. By leaving my first two employers after less than a year each, I settled into a good situation where I have stayed put. Each time, I increased my salary (the last move increased it over 25 percent), benefits, and work environment (support, supplies, ethics).

I left unsafe places that poorly staffed, lacked supplies, and also pushed nurses to do unethical behavior (e.g., work off the clock, write physician orders without disturbing the physician), etc. I was shocked to see how many nurses at my first two work places found the situations acceptable.

I don't think high turnover can just be blamed on a "lazy" generation of nurses, etc.

I also found it interesting to learn (from this board) that the original Baylor plan was for two 12s - Sat and Sun - to be paid as full-time. I don't think - with the current economy - that we will see that any time soon, but I do think that nurses, by voting with their feet, can cause employers to rethink how they might increase retention.

Wow, I would love a Baylor plan at my job. The closest thing I have is plain weekend status, 3 days a week. Which is full time, but oh to just work 2 12 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday and still be considered full time, would be awesome.

Many of you have missed a key point in Ruby's series of posts. You are wrongly assuming that people are leaving her unit because of poor orientation, poor morale, bullying, etc. Her point is that an increasing percentage of new nurses have no intention of staying longer than a year or two no matter how wonderfully they are treated. A morale committee, etc. cannot solve that problem.

As someone who works with a lot of senior level nursing students and with hospital orientations ... I am seeing the same phenomena. The career plans of many new nurses involves "1 year at this first job ... then move on." That is causing a huge problem for the best hospitals/units who try to provide the support needed by new nurses. We don't have the resources to keep providing that much support to a constant flow of new folks. And that causes hardship to all involved and compromises the quality of patient care along with compromising the quality of the work experience.

That is why you see hospitals not hiring as many new grads as they used to. Is that what we want? Another possible solution is also being tried -- internships that pay extremely low rates to new grads until they are off orientation and pulling more of their own weight. Is that the solution we want to see? We need to discuss these things because they are the types of solutions that administrators have at their proposal. Higher pay, better schedules, easier work loads, will not solve this problem -- because. as Ruby is saying, those are not the reasons many people are leaving! (Sure, there are some terrible places to work and some people leave because of bullying, etc. ... but those are not the people we are talking about!)

I disagree with you that things such as higher pay, better schedules, and safe staffing will not help motivate people to stay. (I do also think that other things are important, like internal growth opportunities, regular and substantial pay increases, health benefits, retirement options, good IT and communications systems, good provider/nurse relations, etc., are important).

ICUs are stepping stones for many to other career options, like CRNA, etc. Why shouldn't management accept this and help "grow" the employees so they meet their objectives? I also had thought that CRNA schools require a certain number of years in the ICU as a prerequisite. Wouldn't it be great to help these folks meet their goals? Such folks (who would actually be successful) work hard and would surely be an asset to the unit while there.

On the other hand, if there are folks who are too lazy to do things like clean up poop, these folks really aren't much use. Hopefully, more careful screening during interviews can help weed them out.

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
Can somebody please explain what is so contemptible about wanting a well paid job? I see so many posts lamenting "They are only in it for the moneeeeeey". Is it so unreasonable to expect decent remuneration?

Nothing wrong with wanting a well paid job. But in my opinion it's reasonable to expect professionalism at work, which includes not coming in telling all of us you became a nurse for "job security." I could be wrong though.

Orientation for new grads in my unit is six months; more if we feel that the new grad would be a good fit for the unit and just need more time. It's the best orientation program I've seen in 35 years of nursing. We have nurse educators, classes, a simulation lab -- all the support and resources you could think of and some that would not have occurred to me. I don't know what more we as a unit could do to get new grads to stay . . . a contract has to occur above the unit level.

My frustration is not misplaced. It's not the institution or the unit I work on. It's the culture among new grads that say "I'll do what I want and it's no concern of yours," or "I'm going to do the best I can for MEEEE, and you're not my concern." I'm not saying all or even most new grads suscribe to that culture, but you see it here an awful lot.

Hmmm. Sometimes I think employers have created the mess for themselves by cutting pay, benefits, staffing, pensions, etc. If employers have no loyalty anymore, why are we surprised that employees lack it?

I hope, Ruby, that your unit/organization can help come up with a retention plan. I notice that some posters say that you work at a prestigious hospital (and that workers use your unit and the hospital as a stepping stone). Maybe your unit can harness this behavior to its benefit. Maybe by helping the folks achieve their goals (do you remember the days when an employer would pay for your entire degree?), they might stay a little longer....

Maybe the way education is approached should be changed to meet the needs of the new generation of workers...(noticed you mentioned you have some impressive items at your disposal, e.g., SIM labs).

I don't really care for contracts, but maybe that's an option. I also don't like the notion f paying new grads substandard wages. I think a large number of nursing employers can do better for their employees. I am not as certain about what's going on in your particular institution (or unit), as it sounds like it may be a top-tier institution. --Please keep us posted on what solutions you arrive at.

Specializes in Emergency Nursing.
Many of you have missed a key point in Ruby's series of posts. You are wrongly assuming that people are leaving her unit because of poor orientation poor morale, bullying, etc. Her point is that an increasing percentage of new nurses have no intention of staying longer than a year or two no matter how wonderfully they are treated. A morale committee, etc. cannot solve that problem. As someone who works with a lot of senior level nursing students and with hospital orientations ... I am seeing the same phenomena. The career plans of many new nurses involves "1 year at this first job ... then move on." That is causing a huge problem for the best hospitals/units who try to provide the support needed by new nurses. We don't have the resources to keep providing that much support to a constant flow of new folks. And that causes hardship to all involved and compromises the quality of patient care along with compromising the quality of the work experience. That is why you see hospitals not hiring as many new grads as they used to. Is that what we want? Another possible solution is also being tried -- internships that pay extremely low rates to new grads until they are off orientation and pulling more of their own weight. Is that the solution we want to see? We need to discuss these things because they are the types of solutions that administrators have at their proposal. Higher pay, better schedules, easier work loads, will not solve this problem -- because. as Ruby is saying, those are not the reasons many people are leaving! (Sure, there are some terrible places to work and some people leave because of bullying, etc. ... but those are not the people we are talking about!)[/quote']

If this is the case then maybe, as other posters have said, the hiring manager could modify the screening process when hiring. There are many ways to find out what an employees goals are and if they are likely to want to stay. My manager asked me where I saw myself in 5 years and many other questions about my goals and what I hope to gain by working in the ED. She was basically trying to figure out if I wanted to work in the ED long-term and did so in such a way that it would have been very obvious if I were not passionate about working in the department. I am not sure how your department decides who to hire but I believe being more selective in finding nurses that are the right fit for the department might help with retention.

When I graduated the job market was horrible. I wanted to work in the ED then but the hospitals were not hiring. I started in LTC, then acute care, learning as much as I could until I landed the "job of my dreams". I totally understand the frustration of training staff and them leaving but I can say without a doubt that I personally did what was best for me and my previous employers. I didn't love my job like I do now. I always gave 100% and was happy enough but I definitely wanted something else. Employers deserve employees that love what they do, especially in this field. I needed to take a job that I did not love initially because of the poor job market, $40,000 in student loan debt, and hungry children looking to me for food. Prior to becoming a nurse I had one job for many years. I am not the type of person who has job hopped through my adult life. Sometimes people need to move on for one reason or another. If employers try to hire people who have an interest in the specialty area and seem passionate about it hopefully the majority will stay. Especially if the other staff members are welcoming, encouraging, and positive.

When I started at my current job they had just lost several nurses suddenly (2 injuries, cancer, and one moved). Morale was low because they had been working short but the staff was so happy to see new nurses. Everyone was nice to me, helped me, and made me feel welcome. From day one, my manager would say hello to me, address me by name, and ask how my day was going when she saw me. It kind of surprised me that she remembered who I was because the department is so large. Other nurses would and still do ask if I am "all set" or "need any help" when we work in the same pod and we all smile and say hello when we pass by one and other even when the day is horrible. Its not uncommon for a nurse to start an IV for another nurse without being asked or jump in and take report from EMS when a new patient arrives because the nurse taking the patient is busy. Everyone does it (help) so it just becomes natural to do it yourself. I think these things are some of the main reasons there is not usually a huge turn over rate in my department and could happen in any department.

There Is Nothing Wrong With Nurses That Have Goals And Work Towards Them. Just Because They Leave A Job After A Year Doesn't Mean They Won't Have Skills. ThIs Is Very Silly To ME. Don'T Look Down On Nurses That Want To Move Forward And Continue Thier Education Other Places.

Specializes in CCRN, ED, Unit Manager.

It's the culture among new grads that say "I'll do what I want and it's no concern of yours," or "I'm going to do the best I can for MEEEE, and you're not my concern."

It's a career. There is no reason anyone should sacrifice pay, prestige, vertical mobility, career advancement or happiness when an opportunity for any of those arise. I understand your frustration, but the quotes you put there are... nothing that raises question of cultural character of new grads. It isn't any of your concern... and people should do what's best for them in their careers. It makes sense, doesn't it?

Good read though.