Union, yes or no?

fergus51 · May 23, 2003

Any person that says unions save the bad apples is making excuses for poor management. If a contract says a person must show up, be competent, etc. then management can fire them. If they are too scared of the union getting upset or filing a grievance to do its job then it is management at fault.

Gomer · May 23, 2003

Have to agree with you Fergus51. Poor management is what brings unions into a company. Too bad good nurses have to suffer at the hands of both.

pickledpepperRN · May 23, 2003

I was totally supported by my state nurses association in reporting an incompetent RN to the BRN. Almost all of us on the night shift did.

She had already been given a chance and quit when she was caught sleeping again.

This nurse made up vital signs and urine output. She once charted for the entire 12 hour shift in the 3rd hour!

I don't know whether her license was taken away or not, but the union did not try to protect her job.

On the other hand a new grad agreed to float. She was overwhelmed and did not have sufficient resources to care for her patients. After telling the charge nurse, nurse manager, and house supervisor she did not know how to care for these patients she was told, "Do the best you can."

Then she was written up as incompetent when she missed a medication when assisting a physician with a procedure.

It was agreed in a meeting with management that as per the contract RNs would only float within their cluster and new grads would not float the first 6 months after passing boards. A resource nurse would be assigned and orientation would be provided before forcing a nurse to float to any unit.

We kept a fine nurse because of the union. Now she is experienced and a relief charge nurse 4 years later.

-jt · May 23, 2003

She was fired & her license was taken away. But the license was taken away temporarily - until she goes thru the program & has a chance at rehabilitation & proves she is worthy of having her license returned and with what restrictions, if any.

The difference between us is that it seems you would just leave it at fire her & take her license & forget about this person. Just throw her in the street cause shes a "bad apple"? So, what happens to that nurse then? Or do you not care, since she created the mess she made herself? As a union, we work to get the nurse the help she needs & the opportunity to win her license, life, and livelhood back. And yes, nurses helping nurses is rather noble. There should be more of that kind of compassion among us.

Neither. Since the state adopted our union's Nurse Peer Assistance program which we had developed for our members who might need it, it is now a state program by law & is available to any RN or LPN in all of NY. It receives state funding & works closely with the state board of nursing.

She was fired - the employer, has no further involvement with her. Her being fired was not the issue. The issue we dealt with with them was to have them drop the arrest & not send her to jail, so we could send her directly into treatment. They agreed and she did not go to jail. She got help to turn her life around instead, is doing very well, and may eventually regain her license. Doesnt everyone deserve the chance? Apparently, according to you, no. Personally, I think they do.

Contrary to what some think because she succumbed to easily available drugs, she is not a "bad nurse" or a "bad person" or a "bad apple". She was a woman in trouble and needed help getting herself & her life back on track. If non-union nurses want to say that RN unions are wrong for giving that help & are "protecting the bad nurse", so be it, but I feel sorry for other non-union nurses who might someday need the same kind of compassion from their peers as my union & our nurses have.

SPAN (Statewide Peer Assistance for Nurses)

http://www.nysna.org/programs/span/home.htm

fergus51 · May 23, 2003

Originally posted by Gomer
Have to agree with you Fergus51. Poor management is what brings unions into a company. Too bad good nurses have to suffer at the hands of both.

I meant that poor management is what keeps bad nurses in their jobs, not unions (though I do also think that unions are a response to poor management). I have worked mostly in union hospitals since I started nursing and have seen incompetent nurses fired. I have also seen incompetent nurses working in a non-union hospital. It is management's responsibility to ensure the nurses working are capable of providing adequate care to their patients and to say "Well, it's the union that keeps them here and poor management is stuck with them" is a big fat cop out. Incompetence is not a union-non-union issue.

If nurses feel they are suffering under a bad union they should organize themselves and try to change the situation or leave or have their union dues directed elsewhere.

pickledpepperRN · May 24, 2003

Thank you Fergus:

If the nurses really want to work at it they can get 30% of the staffs signatures on a petition or cards. Then the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) will hold a legal election to decertify the union.

This can be to elect another union or to just have no union.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · May 24, 2003

Howdy Ya'll

from deep in the heart of Texas

Here we go again -jt. Anurse who steals scripts, forges a prescription should have charges filed against her and her license removed.

1. that nurse is a drug abuser

2. that nurse is a thief

3. that nurse is guilty of fraud.

Yes, file charges against her, yes take her license away. Why not she herself is throwing it away.

Use this rehab money from the state to attract and train new nurses. Ones who will treasure what they have earned. Get the drug abusers out of nursing.

pickledpepperRN · May 24, 2003

According to AA & HHS licensed nurses have the lowest rate of relapse when they ask for and complete treatment. I know of 2 RNs at different hospitals. I do not know their entire story but on had been convicted of DUI leaving a restaurant with her kids in the car. 2 1/2 years later she got her license back. NOW 12 years after that she is still a full time valued and very fine nurse.

The other is still working after 22 years. She had been an IV nurse. Now works in ICU.

I am much more disturbed by the sober (I think) RN who at 10:00 pm charted for the entire night, up to 6:30 am the next day! I called the supervisor to sho this charting, wrote my manager, and reported her to the BRN. She never came back to any hospitat I work at.

One nurse became habituated to narcotic pain pills after an auto accident. Shw was in rehab before returning to work at a different hospital. She had been an adult ICU nurse and retrained to work in the NICU because her injury made lifting impossible.

I don't think these are the situations you were writing about.

As a nurse representative (steward in other unions) I attended a first step meeting. The newly hired manager had a printout of time clock records. There were about a dozen times in 6 months when this full time nurse clocked in between ONE and THREE minutes late. She was told she would be terminated for one more occurance. I was writing notes when the manager lost it. She stood up, turned red, fists clenched, kicked the trash can ove, and yelled. "You look just like the woman my husband left me for!"

The union filed a grievance to get the write up out of her file. She transferred to another med/surg unit. As far as I know this manager has been fair to the other staff.

pickledpepperRN · May 24, 2003

To my knowledge the CNA does not make promises.

RNs from contract facilities go talk about what they have.

charissa · May 25, 2003

This key element has been repeated numerous times in this thread, but it seems that many who are totally anti union in any event opinionated seem to keep skipping over it or ignoring it. * A proper nursing union IS NOT one that is organized by or most times even a member of a major or even state wide labor union. A real union that benifits pt's and nurses, and to my understanding most nursing unions at least in my area are started BY NURSES banding together, are made up of their NONPAID FELLOW EMPLOYEES as leaders, and are ASSISTED in legal issues by their STATE NURSES ASSOC! Is anyone listening? Teamsters and big labor have no real business pretending to rep nurses. WE REP OURSELVES regarding OUR CONCERNS about OURSELVES and PT SAFETY ! My hospital has been union 30 + years in that manner with NO strikes and a great relationship between management and Union and things work out well for all of us. I understand that they have pros and cons, but if a manager is unwilling to abide by our contract or address concerns I have somewhere else to go. And good nursing unions that are set up properly dont shield nurses who provide unsafe care or shouldnt be working, I have had 2 nurses fired within the last 4 months from my hospital because of care issues, they petitioned and were denied for justifiable reasons. Eveything has good aspects and bad aspects, unions are no different. Big commercial unions like the one I keep seeing referenced shouldnt be reping nurses, they do not have an obligation or ethical boundaries and their actions many times reflect that, nursing unions set up in the correct manner do because THEY ARE THE NURSES! Not some fat guy sitting behind a desk 100+ miles away collecting my $$. Also it is upsetting to see that many view union pay increases as nurses who dont deserve it getting paid more and more. That is a tad offensive, as I would argue that as a hard working dedicated nurse i have earned every raise I have every received as much as the next guy or gal.

pickledpepperRN · May 25, 2003

Charissa:

THANK YOU!

That is as it is and should be.

The elected unpaid nurse leaders decide how to spent the dues money. In California the all RN union mambers pay about 1/2 what other unionized nurses make. We get better patient care language in our contracts. Where the staff work at it the staffing is much improved.

The outgoing leadership got a ratio law passed. Many contracts have a ban on mandatory overtime. Staff is cancelled last over travelers and registry unless they request it.

On pay:

Quality nurses should get the pay increase without having to kiss up to management.

pickledpepperRN · May 25, 2003

SEIU people came knocking at my door trying to get me to sign a union card for a hospital I no longer work for.

CNA does not go to homes or make phone calls without an invitation. If you are in California and someone does this ask for their name and call oe e- mail the CNA:

http://www.calnurse.org/cna/np/np61998.html

http://www.calnurse.org/cna/mem/

http://www.calnurse.org/

http://cna.igc.org/cna101/