Union, yes or no?

-jt · May 25, 2003

Exactly. And they dont go to organize those nurses until the nurses themselves ASK them to & INVITE them to come. And when the nurses do ask, it is other staff nurses like US who go to talk to them & answer their questions about our NY state nurses assoc union & to show them our contracts & how it all works. They can compare our working situation as union nurses to what they have as non-union nurses & then make their own informed decision.

I agree with you in the statement above - the best place for RNs is in an RN union run for by & RNs - but I wouldnt put a negative blanket statement down on all the trade unions that also represent nurses, though. Some are doing a good job. Some are even working closely with their state nurses assocs, as is happening in NJ now with the NJSNA & the nurses division of the teachers union.

Gomer · May 25, 2003

Originally posted by spacenurse
CNA does not go to homes or make phone calls without an invitation.

Sorry, Spacenurse, I must disagree with you. When CNA tried to unionize my hospital (about 1 1/2 years ago) they somehow got hold of home addresses and phone numbers. I received 2 "how the CNA will change your hospital" letters with promises to negotiate better rates and benefits and 3 phone calls. After telling the CNA person what I thought about her and her union the phone calls stopped. Also, I complained to the NLRB.

pickledpepperRN · May 25, 2003

I am sure it depends on the local. We have several campuses of our county hospital system. One has a very active group of nurses who accomplish wonderful advocacy. Another has terrific nurses who are not active in their union (a BIG one, not all RN). The facility where the nurses insist on advocacy do a lot, poor treatment and unfair discipline are common at the other campus. Nurses just quit rather than fight for honesty and quality care.

pickledpepperRN · May 25, 2003

Originally posted by Gomer
Sorry, Spacenurse, I must disagree with you. When CNA tried to unionize my hospital (about 1 1/2 years ago) they somehow got hold of home addresses and phone numbers. I received 2 "how the CNA will change your hospital" letters with promises to negotiate better rates and benefits and 3 phone calls. After telling the CNA person what I thought about her and her union the phone calls stopped. Also, I complained to the NLRB.

You could be right. I know it is not the policy. Glad you reported it. Glad she stopped when you told her to.

CNA does send mailings. I have NEVER seen promises, but the history of past victories won at other hospitals seem like promises.

Guess what? When two young people came to my house claiming to be the Sierra club and actually had SEIU cards I visited my friends at my former hospital. I was told of a tall blond woman who came to the house claiming to be CNA. I think I know there is no tall blond woman working for CNA in Southern California. This person also claimed to be an RN. Don't know who she is but if she is a CNA nurse we need to tell her this is NOT OK. She does not work for the CNA.

The RN elected Board of Directors wrote rules telling staff to only call those who give their phone number at a meeting or by sending in a tear off form.

Letters and information we sometimes send to all licensed nurses. That is how we got many many 10s of thousands of letters to prod the governor to sign the 'Whistle blower' and Safe Staffing laws.

Back in the 1970s we got 1:2 ratios for ICU the same way.

I am very sorry you had to put up with unwanted phone calls. No need to be sorry, you didn't disagree with me, just told me something I didn't know about. Never heard of CNA calling anyone who did not give their number. It could have happened. It could have been someone else claiming to be CNA.

PS:

I really do not know where you work. 1 1/2 years ago whatever election was held I don't know about.

A very good hospital near the beach had an election with another union, not CNA about that time.

Hope you didn't lose all your union supporters if 40% voted for the union. Perhaps those who left were the most vocal. Do you think it was peer rebuke, retaliation by management, or something else? I can't imagine accepting employment just to organize at a facility. I do work registry. Almost never talk about a union because I almost nebver get a break. I just work 24 hours a week at my CNA hospital for benefits and retirement. Work registry once a week if I feel like it because I am nosey. That is how I know the hospital that voted down a union that is not CNA is a good hospital.

Bookie · May 25, 2003

We are unionized (LA County). The union is very weak. In fact, it is the best friend the County ever had. The rep doesn't fight for you, she just agrees with whatever the county says. Can't speak for all unions, though.

pickledpepperRN · May 25, 2003

Originally posted by Bookie
We are unionized (LA County). The union is very weak. In fact, it is the best friend the County ever had. The rep doesn't fight for you, she just agrees with whatever the county says. Can't speak for all unions, though.

I have been told the same. County nurses did a great thing a couple years ago in exposing the deaths caused by no dialysis RNs being on call. I cut the article from the Times, but cannot post it.

It did make me very proud of those nurses.

I have gone to Big County and MLK through the registry. Worked hard with really good nursing and medical staff. One grouchy and one very fine clerk.

We voted to keep the hospitals open. Now read that Rancho has more time to stay open, but High Desert is closing although it is always fully occupied with patients.

pickledpepperRN · May 25, 2003

Oh Gomer:

I was reminded that possibly your co workers gave your phone number to an organizer. It is very possible the lady called you because she was asked to or told you were interested. After all you said you got no more calls after you said you didn't want them.

VERY different from the two at my door. I had to close the door on them. They would not leave.

pickledpepperRN · May 26, 2003

http://www.calnurse.org/cna/calnursenovdec02/cnarns_spellitout.html

http://www.calnurse.org/gr/aanestad.html

Three days of dramatic testimony

CNA RNs spell it out clearly for Department of

Health Services

On November 15, 2002 in Los Angeles, November 19 in San

Francisco and December 16 in Fresno, the California

Department of Health Services conducted public hearings

on the state's new nurse-to-patient staffing ratios set forth in

January by the DHS and the office of Governor Gray Davis.

The following are selections from the testimony presented

by members of the California Nurses Association.

Deborah Burger, RN

Good morning, my name is Deborah Burger, vice president

of the California Nurses Association, a professional and

labor organization representing more than 45,000 registered

nurses. We sponsored State Assembly Bill 394 (Kuehl) a

law designed to address unsafe staffing in acute care

facilities.

A recently published study in the Journal of the American

Medical Association entitled "Hospital Nursing Staffing and

Patient Mortality, Nurse Burnout, and Job Dissatisfaction,"

by Linda Aiken supports our position that patients in acute

care settings demand the license of a registered nurse.

The study shows sizable and significant effects of the RN

staffing ratios on preventable deaths.

In addition, RN rich staffing ratios contribute to the rescue of

patients with life threatening conditions due to increased

surveillance, early detection, and timely interventions that

save lives.

The effectiveness of the RN surveillance is influenced by the

number of RNs available to assess patients on an on-going

basis.

The study finds that for each additional patient assigned to

an RN, there is a 7 percent increase to the likelihood of

death within 30 days from a complication not present upon

admission to the hospital.

Finally, with respect to the patient mortality rate, the study

finds that an increase of 4 patients per RN would increase

the patient mortality rate by 31 percent in California.

The hospital industry and some groups you will hear speak

would seek up to 50 percent Licensed Vocational Nurses

(LVNs) in the ratio.

If granted, the staffing ratio formula proposal

would double

the patient load of the RN because of the severely restricted

scope of practice of LVNs when applying the nursing

process.

Using the findings of the Aiken study and applying the 50

percent LVN ratio proposed by the hospital industry and

their supporters, would translate into 4,100 additional deaths

in California.

Why? Because the direct care RN, for instance on a

medical/surgical unit will in effect have 12 patients when

LVNs are allowed to have a primary patient care

assignment.

While CNA research called for a ratio of 1:3 RNs on the

medical/surgical floor, we believe the proposed regulations

are a good start. We will be sponsoring legislation to monitor

and enforce the ratios including the collection of data to

determine the efficacy of these ratios and whether or not

they need to be lowered.

Malinda Markowitz, RN

Good morning, my name is Malinda Markowitz. I am a

registered nurse and member of the CNA Board of Directors.

I work as a direct care RN on a surgical, orthopedic,

neurological unit of a major healthcare system in the San

Jose area. I have been an RN for 22 and a half years.

... Caring for the patient with complex diagnosis requires the

clinical judgment of the registered nurse. Registered nurses

utilize knowledge derived from social, biological and physical

sciences as she /he assesses, develops their nursing

diagnosis and implements the plan of care and evaluates the

care for each patient. It was for all these reasons that

several years ago it was decided that the use of LVNs on

our surgical unit was not beneficial due to the severity and

complexity of our patients.

Studies indicate that around the clock surveillance of

patients by registered nurses account for early detection and

prompt intervention when a patient's condition deteriorates.

The effectiveness of nurse surveillance is influenced by the

number of RNs available to assess patients on an ongoing

basis.

Nurses are required by law to be patient advocates. I feel

that to seemingly allow the hospitals to include LVNs in the

count up to 50 percent would not be in the best interest of

our patients. My job is to improve the healthcare provided to

my patients. This would be against the interests of our

patients.

Gomer · May 27, 2003

Spacenurse,

Popular thought around my hospital was that those pro-union with very loud mouths were organizers or plants as most were recent hires with less than 1-year employment. The are gone now and, hopefully, everything has quieted down. Management is good and really listens to us.

pickledpepperRN · May 27, 2003

Originally posted by Gomer
Management is good and really listens to us. [/b]

Glad to hear it.

Hope it lasts. I only say that because a hospital where I worked was bought by Tenet. The first week the best managers quit and people were floated to areas where they did not know how to care for the patient. Imagine a geriatric ICU nurse in L&D!

Hope all stays well at your hospital.

Gomer · May 28, 2003

Spacenurse....I'm guessing but do you work at DF? I know Tenet bought them some months ago and there has been trouble ever since. Sorry if you do.

pickledpepperRN · May 28, 2003

Not any more. Went back to my previous hospital.