Survey: Would there be a nursing shortage if... - page 7

Here are the results of last months survey question Would there be a nursing shortage if nurses were paid better and had better benefits? : Please feel free to read and post any comments... Read More

  1. by   Franlpntorn
    Quote from hoolahan
    ok, i admit it! i will go for the money, but not in the hospital. now i will never say never. if my children were starving, i would return to hospital work. otherwise, there are plenty of other opportunities.

    i have been unhappy w my hh job. not b/c i hate this job or type of nursing. it is actually much lower stress than the hospital, and i have tremendous flexibility, it is more of a managemrnt/admin thing that bothers me. the autonomy i used to enjoy so much is being micromanaged out the wazoo. i also know in this particular place, b/c i have been outspoken, i will never have a shot at being anything but a staff nurse there. but i found out about the huge bonus, and swallowed my pride and decided to take this job b/c i could work less hours and make more $$ than the great case management job i could've had w a managed care company.

    i also accepted a huge bonus and raise once to leave a hospital where i worked in the ct icu and be a part of a team of nurses to implement a new ct icu unit in a hospital that was 7 min from my home. but, i threw the $$ away b/c of constant verbal abuse from one of the new docs. you couldn't pay me enough money to go back there!! two other nurses went out on psych leave which was blamed on him. my husband still rues that decision b/c if i had stayed i would've made 80k myself that year. i think he wanted to retire personally.

    so, i freely admit i will follow the money, but i also believe i am worth every single penny. i give them their money's worth every single shift, and then some. i have no problem w saying we should aggressively demand more money.

    check this out brian, i was moonlighting for an agency about 2 years ago, and i got a call the day before labor day, would i work in the peds unit for...$152 per hour!!! my husband is doing a jig, and i said to him, are you nuts?? i would be the only nurse on the unit w 2 kids. i have done peds icu, in the ct icu, s/p repair of congenital heart defect. the kids came to us lined up. if we lost an iv, anesthesia is in a call room that is attached to our unit, they will restart the iv. now if i am the only nurse on that unit (i didn't have a problem w that, i used to be only nurse on a vip unit years ago w 12 beds) but what if i have to start an iv? i suck at ped iv's!! plus, i never ever worked at that hospital before, no orientation, etc... it was not worth it to risk my license in that way. i probably could've accepted and flown safely under the radar, but i said to my husband, if your kid was sick and needed an iv drug stat, would you want me as your child's nurse, after what i just told you? he said, i get it now, but i still think you should do it. :d

    so yes, i am greedy for $$, but not at any personal cost, just not worth it in some situations.

    also, i think the hospitals could hire people if they wanted to, but don't, to save money. how many staff would be wiling to get sent home w/o pay? they can cancel agency, and save money in the short-term. plus, how often do they keep the agency nurse as a cushion? god forbid the icu nurses should have 2 pt's on nights for a break instead of three. but it saves bo cou bucks to cancel that extra nurse, so they do. it leaves them a cushion so admin can keep buying those new jags. i remember a thread a year or so back that described the sickeningly inflated salaries of ceo's. the "shortage" also supports their salaries!

    ok, off my soap box now :d

    i soooo agree low census on call mabe 4-5 hrs hrs if i'm lucky at 15.77 an hour w/shift diff. new grad but been a cna for 13 yrs. a nurse can be a cna but a cna can't be a nurse. as an rn i can do more then a cna but .... i'm an a rn let me work as one. knew what i was getting into but come on. this last week worked 1 -12hr shift and 2 days of less 12 hrs between them.last nigh was my 12 hrs the super came in the am she said we had to many people working for the number of pt's. 13 pt to 3 rn's (1 new grad) 1 cna. 7 of the pt were fall risk, 4 - were 1 to 1 care most incont w/ bed changes and turns q 2hrs. this is at a hospital not an ecf. we have one at our hospital and they have 3 cna at night but of course 1 nurse. although they have no iv's or ivpb's to hang, or beeping pumps to check out, call lights every 5 mins to answer, no iv push meds to give, no iv restarts to do after it's been ripped out by the pt, and charting every 2 hrs, and every time you go into the room. it's so much better at night right
    when is the 6 to 1 going to be the safe number. admin just don't get it.. when you have complex pt that need care and they don't get it, it will cost money in the long run... with malpratices. 7 to 8 pt's are to much. 1 thing we have are some nice doctors, their not rude and they treat you like you have brains. but that's not going to protect you or your license. at what point is it safe. worked as lpn first job as a nurse in ecf in alzhimers unit with 25-30 pt's only nurse w/ 3 cna's. from the time i got there to the time i went home all i was doing was the pill pass. most nights no dinner, sat only after 10:45 to chart on 15 of them. was still in school but left after 90 days. was just to much. the only good thing was the double time for the hollidays and the eve's.
    i look at my license from time to time at ask my self will i be ok and a safe nurse or just get by tonight at work.
    can do the job w/ 6 or less but when you add the 7 or 8 that's when i worry. what am i missing did i chart it , was the iv hung, did the accucheck get done, was the pill given and the list goes on. this plays over and over in my mind. at the end of 12 hrs :uhoh21: :stone
    and then if i'm lucky i come back and do it the next night and maybe get 3 days off to sleep til 7 pm and its the same day when i wake up. then still stay up late the other 2 days because ....wont be rested when i go back. stressssssssss just is't the right word. think i need the psyci ward.
    ? am i insane or just a nurse??????????????
  2. by   nelligolitely
    Quote from franlpntorn
    i soooo agree low census on call mabe 4-5 hrs hrs if i'm lucky at 15.77 an hour w/shift diff. new grad but been a cna for 13 yrs. a nurse can be a cna but a cna can't be a nurse. as an rn i can do more then a cna but .... i'm an a rn let me work as one. knew what i was getting into but come on. this last week worked 1 -12hr shift and 2 days of less 12 hrs between them.last nigh was my 12 hrs the super came in the am she said we had to many people working for the number of pt's. 13 pt to 3 rn's (1 new grad) 1 cna. 7 of the pt were fall risk, 4 - were 1 to 1 care most incont w/ bed changes and turns q 2hrs. this is at a hospital not an ecf. we have one at our hospital and they have 3 cna at night but of course 1 nurse. although they have no iv's or ivpb's to hang, or beeping pumps to check out, call lights every 5 mins to answer, no iv push meds to give, no iv restarts to do after it's been ripped out by the pt, and charting every 2 hrs, and every time you go into the room. it's so much better at night right
    when is the 6 to 1 going to be the safe number. admin just don't get it.. when you have complex pt that need care and they don't get it, it will cost money in the long run... with malpratices. 7 to 8 pt's are to much. 1 thing we have are some nice doctors, their not rude and they treat you like you have brains. but that's not going to protect you or your license. at what point is it safe. worked as lpn first job as a nurse in ecf in alzhimers unit with 25-30 pt's only nurse w/ 3 cna's. from the time i got there to the time i went home all i was doing was the pill pass. most nights no dinner, sat only after 10:45 to chart on 15 of them. was still in school but left after 90 days. was just to much. the only good thing was the double time for the hollidays and the eve's.
    i look at my license from time to time at ask my self will i be ok and a safe nurse or just get by tonight at work.
    can do the job w/ 6 or less but when you add the 7 or 8 that's when i worry. what am i missing did i chart it , was the iv hung, did the accucheck get done, was the pill given and the list goes on. this plays over and over in my mind. at the end of 12 hrs :uhoh21: :stone
    and then if i'm lucky i come back and do it the next night and maybe get 3 days off to sleep til 7 pm and its the same day when i wake up. then still stay up late the other 2 days because ....wont be rested when i go back. stressssssssss just is't the right word. think i need the psyci ward.
    ? am i insane or just a nurse??????????????

    doesn't sound like you're insane to me franlpntorn, just a hard worker with a good conscience. one day they'll all figure it out.
  3. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from Liann
    Better pay and benefits might help recruit more nurses, but they wont STAY if the working conditions remain unbearable.

    I absolutely agree.
  4. by   nurse1986
    Quote from brian
    Here are the results of last months survey question
    Would there be a nursing shortage if nurses were paid better and had better benefits? :



    Please feel free to read and post any comments that you have right here in this discussion thread by clicking the "Post Reply" button.

    Thanks
    Money has a lot to do with being a nurse, but wanting to help someone has a lot more to do with it. I remember in nursing school the instructors told us " you will never get dirty , only work 8 hour days and the money is great" Well they lied
    My other point is after being an LPN for 20 years still , I have to work full time and can't go back to school I nned to find an online home study that does not cost a millions to do. If more LPN had the ability to go back and finish we would all be RN's and maybe there would not be a shortage. We do have years of experience too
  5. by   Hairstylingnurse
    Quote from NancyRN
    I think I earn good money per hour because I do agency work. I don't have the stamina to work more than one or two days a week. I'd work for less money per hour if the work wasn't so brutal; I could work more days and not spend my days off recuperating!
    AMEN!!!!!! :roll :roll :roll
  6. by   debroh1
    More money would certainly make it more desirable, but that's half the problem. I work in a state facility so the pay is slightly higher than other area facilities. However we also have mandatory overtime. Basically once a week, at a moments notice your told you have to stay an additional 8 hours, whether you come in the next morning or not, whether you have someone to watch your kids, etc.. And if you refuse you are fined 2 days pay the first time, 5 days pay the second refusal and 10 days the third. After that you are fired. On top of that it is a large facility. And you ultimately end up on a floor you are not familar with, your tired, and our facility LOVES to turn you into the board for ANY mistake you MAY have made. Needless to say there is a lot of turnover of staff. So you tell me, are better pay and benefits going to attract more people to Nursing?
  7. by   RN-PA
    Quote from debroh1
    So you tell me, are better pay and benefits going to attract more people to Nursing?
    They may attract people but many won't stay once they experience the working conditions.
  8. by   Franlpntorn
    back again,
    new at work, low crital labs. the lab calls us with the low lab value then we have 1 hour :stone to call the doctor with the value. were to call the on call doc but we have a doc who want's no one to take care of his pt. now he comes in early 6:30-7am but his labs are drawn at 5. the lab calls at 5:30 to tell us it's low so what do we do when he's not in until 8:30 on the weekend. yes i called and he got mad at meand had an outburst today. he did leave an order in the chart to not to call for route labs. pt has had the same low lab for a week. you would think that there would be something in writing on this but... no. we have 3 doc's who come in early and there labs are drawn early. 2 come in early on the weekends but not this doc. maybe the doc's need to get together and tell us what they want. all the doc come in by 8:30 so why is this such a big deal top call within an hour?
    most of the doc's want to see the labs in the am when they come in and not be told at 6:30 am before their awake. it's a good way to make the doc's mad at the nursing staff. can't we leave a note for the doc. yes low crital labs are importent- but you can't wait until the hour is up to call the doc or you get called in and asked why. is this to add more stress or what, or is this away to get nurses to quit. now this falls on the night shift well we don't have to many of us left. this only makes matters worse. i don't have time to hunt down a doctor just to tell him someone else pt has a low or high lab. and he can't or won't do anything about it. if the doc want's us to call the he tells us. now the same doc who is mad at me is the doc who also complained about late labs. mabe managment needs to talk to the docs, or vice a versa. don't put this on the nurses who just want to do their jobs yes this is part of it too but ... maybe the lab should call the doc's at 6:30. still don't know where this came from, hospital jaco, or the lab.
    getting more stressed as the days go by.
    Last edit by Franlpntorn on Jul 18, '05
  9. by   Sheri257
    Quote from shodobe
    I totally agree but I firmly believe if there was better pay and better benes with a good UNION representative you might lure some non-working nurses back into the force. Now before all of you jump on my case about what I have written here remember, this is just my opinion and nothing more. Mike
    Statistics from the U.S. Department of Health and Labor actually prove this is true.

    In 2000 the Health Department found that teachers were making $14,000 a year more than RN's. When you calculate the difference on an hourly basis, teachers make even more because they have a lot more time off than RN's do.

    Why do teachers make more? 42 percent of teachers belong to a union, while only 19 percent of RN's do.

    Yet, the few RN's who do belong to a union still do better than non-union Rn's. In 2003, the Labor Department reported that union RN's made, on average, $7,000 a year more than non-union RN's.

    This doesn't include other benefits that unions negotiate on behalf of nurses, such as patient ratios, restrictions on mandatory overtime, retirement benefits, etc.

    Union workers across the board, in all industries, do better as well. In 2004, the Labor Department also reported that union workers made, on average, $9,000 more a year than non-union workers.

    The more unionized a profession is, the more money they make. So, unions do make a difference when it comes to pay.

    :spin:
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jul 19, '05
  10. by   jaylynn67
    Quote from eltrip
    The working conditions, management, and treatment by physicians all factor into the exodus of nurses leaving the bedside setting. Money is a contributing but is, by no means, the only one.
    Wow - this is really discouraging. I have only just applied to nursing school and i am not really sure i even want to be a nurse. I know I want to help people and have a positive impact on peoples lives. When i found out i could become an RN at night and on weekends in just two years, that sounded good to me! I couldnt decide what to do at 37, working as a secretary making under 30,000 a year, and barely making it. I thought nurses made a good living, and could get a job just about anywhere in any part of the country. What makes the working conditions so bad that you're talking about? And the benefits are bad? Where is an ideal place to work as a nurse, if the hospitals are so horrible? I was thinking of trying to get into a research position somewhere down the road.
  11. by   jaylynn67
    Quote from eltrip
    The working conditions, management, and treatment by physicians all factor into the exodus of nurses leaving the bedside setting. Money is a contributing but is, by no means, the only one.

    I think im doing something wrong here, i thought i posted a reply once, but its not here. Im 37, working a dead end job as a secretary, making under 30,000 after working her 10 years. When i found out i could become an RN in two years at night and on weekends, i thought that was great! I really dont even know if i really want to be a nurse, but i know i dont want to be a secretary for the rest of my life. I was originally going to go for phys therapy assistant, but the classes were only during the day, and i cant afford to quit my job to go to school. What is so bad about the working conditions of nurses? I thought nurses made a good living. I do want to help people and make a positive impact on peoples lives, but this discussion is really discouraging to me. What other postions in the healthcare feild would be better? Nuclear Medicine technichian, Occ Therapy Asst?
  12. by   debroh1
    Quote from jaylynn67
    I think im doing something wrong here, i thought i posted a reply once, but its not here. Im 37, working a dead end job as a secretary, making under 30,000 after working her 10 years. When i found out i could become an RN in two years at night and on weekends, i thought that was great! I really dont even know if i really want to be a nurse, but i know i dont want to be a secretary for the rest of my life. I was originally going to go for phys therapy assistant, but the classes were only during the day, and i cant afford to quit my job to go to school. What is so bad about the working conditions of nurses? I thought nurses made a good living. I do want to help people and make a positive impact on peoples lives, but this discussion is really discouraging to me. What other postions in the healthcare feild would be better? Nuclear Medicine technichian, Occ Therapy Asst?
    The problem with Nursing is this, the money is not bad, it's the conditions. You end up working the evening or midnight shift in the beginning. You work weekends, holidays, birthdays, etc.. It's hard to get days off because of staffing problems. My facility has mandatory overtime, that you can't refuse. You are responsible for the care of not only your pts, but dealing with the staff, lab, pharmacy, drs, families, charting, treatments, passing meds, mountains of required paperwork for falls, injuries, etc.. It's a lot to deal with. If your lucky enough to find a job that has treatment nurse, or office assistants to help you deal with some of the above your lucky. My facility has those but they only work day shift. So after 3:00 pm I'm the one that does all the above for 50 residents on my floor. And you have good nights with the bad, but the problem is that any mistake you make jeopordizes your license. Reporting requirements have become stricter and our facility turns ALL POSSIBLE errors into the board of nursing for them to investigate. So you spend alot of your own time staying over to ensure everything was done right.(my facility has a strict policy of clocking out on time, so you do it and then go back to finish up your work). You learn to deal with all of that but you always have the possibility of an innocent mistake making you lose your career.
  13. by   jaylynn67
    Quote from debroh1
    The problem with Nursing is this, the money is not bad, it's the conditions. You end up working the evening or midnight shift in the beginning. You work weekends, holidays, birthdays, etc.. It's hard to get days off because of staffing problems. My facility has mandatory overtime, that you can't refuse. You are responsible for the care of not only your pts, but dealing with the staff, lab, pharmacy, drs, families, charting, treatments, passing meds, mountains of required paperwork for falls, injuries, etc.. It's a lot to deal with. If your lucky enough to find a job that has treatment nurse, or office assistants to help you deal with some of the above your lucky. My facility has those but they only work day shift. So after 3:00 pm I'm the one that does all the above for 50 residents on my floor. And you have good nights with the bad, but the problem is that any mistake you make jeopordizes your license. Reporting requirements have become stricter and our facility turns ALL POSSIBLE errors into the board of nursing for them to investigate. So you spend alot of your own time staying over to ensure everything was done right.(my facility has a strict policy of clocking out on time, so you do it and then go back to finish up your work). You learn to deal with all of that but you always have the possibility of an innocent mistake making you lose your career.
    That sounds absolutely horrible! this is really making me think twice. I have to say, do you think all these conditions would exist if this was a male dominated profession? I dont.

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