Strange Story

[PMFB-RN]

so i do not work in nursing homes. i have always been a, icu / er nurse. however i have a good friend who is the don of a small, private nursing home. very occasionally, like once a year i have filled in on night shift for her when she was desperate and scrapping the bottom of the barrel to fill a night shift.

so my friend calls me at the last minute saying she is out of town and her night nurse called in and she has nobody to cover it. the day nurse is already working a double so can't stay for nights, could i please, please cover the shift? it's a really easy job for the rn and i usually just end up reading or surfing the net most of the shift. i help the cna turn a few patients and give the occasional prn. so i agree and head into the nursing home.

i am working with a very nice young cna, we will call her "jane". jane is 17 years old and in high school, she works every saturday night at the nursing home and i was told she was "excellent" and really knew her job and the residents.

so about 2400 jane asks me if i can help her turn mr. smith (not his real name). mr.smith is an older man who has been paralyzed from the waist down for years. he is also a big man and heavy and a stroke in the past left him mostly nonverbal. i say sure and we head in there. jane talks to mr.smith like they are old friends. we adjust the bed and grab the draw sheet, as jane leans over the bed mr.smith's hands shoot up onto her breasts. jane doesn't even flinch. after boosting him, as we were walking out of the room i ask her why she tolerates mr.smith grabbing her breasts? jane says to me:

"oh that mr.smith has always done that, it keeps him calm". !!!

every two hours the rest of the night the same thing happened, and according to jane he has done that for as long as she has worked there. i offered to have a talk with mr. smith for her, jane just shrugged and said she doesn't mind and that he tends to get upset and moody if he doesn't get to do it.

my first thought was "holy cow! they should put this in the brochure and they would have a waiting list for beds in this home". my second thought was that there was a real generation gap in what is and isn't acceptable in evidence here (between jane and i).

i did fire off an email to my don friend.

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

'Jane' is an ignorant fool. Anyone that lets strange men grab their breasts needs a good talking to. What does she let other people do to her? This smacks to me of someone who may also possibly have been a victim of some sort of child molestation when she was younger, as this is one way it manifests itself later.

I would REALLY sit down & have a talk with her or get your DON friend to do it. Being gullible in the world isn't funny - we need to eduate & protect our young ones. My little great niece is the same; she will go up to anybody & talk to them, a habit we are trying to discourage. She is too trustful of everyone.

I remember as a young NA a guy put his hand right up my fanny for a quick feel when I bent over one day - we wore dresses then - & he didn't have dementia or anything like that. Everyone laughed it off & thought it was hilarious - including the staff - but I remember feeling cheap & humiliated. My cheeks were burning all day. My then fiancee was not too happy about it either.

This is not good and I personally do not think it is funny either. Some may think they are pandering to an old man's whims who will never leave his bed, well, too bad, times have changed.

I can't believe, from what the OP posted, that 'Jane' wasn't bothered by this at all. She needs some serious life lessons taught to her. Once one man takes a liberty, they all will, then it leads to other, more sinister things.

[nola1202]

I agree with the OP this is not good. On a personal level working LTC I don't take it personally if someone is truly confused. I have one LOL that grabs hold of the bottom of whomever is transfering her. In this case it is about fear of falling not creepy sexual stuff. I can stop the transfer and rearrange her hand positioning but I choose not to. However there is one pt we all get vibes from. He truly is confused all the time, but his grasp is intentional and while his words are gibberish, we get the jist/ick! That's not gonna happen to me or anyone I work with if I can help it. LTC is a difficult group and I do see pt's reaching out and touching boobs while trying to get their balance. Most due to dementia don't realize it's inappropriate. I've watched many a CNA quietly redirect them by moving their hands to a more appropriate spot. (same as I see young mothers do with their children. What's my point you ask? Don't really have one, this is a grey area and I see where I work actively teaching, training what pt abuse is/reporting requirements. They also discuss what is abusive to employees and what to do/report. I think a culture where we all look out for eachother is important in this kind of environment, we are all very vulnerable to abuse. If we can't spot it, then how can we spot it when our patients are being treated badly?

[cacentralvalley]

I agree that this is not good, but...

I wonder if Jane tolerates this because she is afraid to 'rock the boat' and doesn't want to lose her job (in this economy its hard to find work). I know at 17 I was incredibly naive.

I'm not trying to make anyone mad, I do not think this is acceptable behavior at all but I'm just saying (without knowing Jane) a 17 year old may be afraid to be labeled as a complainer or she may just keep her mouth shut because she needs the work.

[merlee]

More than 20 years ago there was a male stroke pt who grabbed at the breasts of female staff who assisted him. I gently pushed his hand aside and firmly said 'no' while making eye contact. I told the staff to stop letting him do this, but many of them just giggled.

When we needed to transfer him from a gurney to the bed, he reached out to grab someone and saw it was me, then turned to grab another nurse. He never grabbed me again.

The patient needs to be told to keep his hands down when being moved, and the staff needs to be told that his behaviour is NOT appropriate. Someone allowed that 17 yr old to believe that his behaviour is to be tolerated, and she does not know enough to say 'NO'.

Good thing to email the DON. Note that he didn't try to touch the 'new' person.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

Arms across his own chest, and turn with draw sheet--keeping arms inside of sheet....hard to turn when arms are flailing around grabbing....And yes, at 17 she should be told that arms across chest is the most appropriate way to turn someone, and that it is highly innappropriate to let anyone grab her breasts. Works in the "real world" too.......

[morte, LPN, LVN]

I think you were wise in turfing it to the DON...

at 17 is she actually legally allowed to work that shift?

[snazzy-jazzy, BSN, RN]

'Jane' is an ignorant fool. Anyone that lets strange men grab their breasts needs a good talking to. What does she let other people do to her? This smacks to me of someone who may also possibly have been a victim of some sort of child molestation when she was younger, as this is one way it manifests itself later.

I would REALLY sit down & have a talk with her or get your DON friend to do it. Being gullible in the world isn't funny - we need to eduate & protect our young ones. My little great niece is the same; she will go up to anybody & talk to them, a habit we are trying to discourage. She is too trustful of everyone.

I remember as a young NA a guy put his hand right up my fanny for a quick feel when I bent over one day - we wore dresses then - & he didn't have dementia or anything like that. Everyone laughed it off & thought it was hilarious - including the staff - but I remember feeling cheap & humiliated. My cheeks were burning all day. My then fiancee was not too happy about it either.

This is not good and I personally do not think it is funny either. Some may think they are pandering to an old man's whims who will never leave his bed, well, too bad, times have changed.

I can't believe, from what the OP posted, that 'Jane' wasn't bothered by this at all. She needs some serious life lessons taught to her. Once one man takes a liberty, they all will, then it leads to other, more sinister things.

I am hoping you mean an American version of fanny and not an Australian fanny ... definately would be expecting more from my colleagues if it was the Auzzie one. Either way, unless he had dementia that is slap worthy.

I am concerned about Jane's self worth. I hope she doesn't get fired, counselled on having some self respect would probably suit the situation better.

[msn10]

Very occasionally, like once a year I have filled in on night shift for her when she was desperate and scrapping the bottom of the barrel to fill a night shift.

I know Jane has a self-esteem problem, but c'mon dude, I hardly think getting a ICU RN to fill in at a nursing home is scraping the bottom!! :)

[xtxrn, ASN, RN]

Makes me wonder what Jane puts up with in her daily life (or regularly) that she a) thinks it's not worth bothering with and b) has such poor boundaries. And age isn't all of it.... most kids in 4th grade would be mortified. jmo

[Hygiene Queen]

That poor girl needs guidance.

I'm usually the first in line for an inappropriate laugh, but I find this too disturbing to be funny.

Either she is seriously unsophisticated and ignorant or she's accustomed to being used.

I don't even want to contemplate if she may like it.

Nope.

[Lifeofanurse]

why is there so much blame on Jane...she's 17 for goodness sakes! If she's working overnights as a CNA I hardly doubt she's a 'good time' kinda girl. I would bet someone else presented this behavior as 'ok' for this patient...to her.

No one likes to be grabbed. I would bet she is very afraid of making a big deal about it though. She's 17. You can bet everyone else who knows this has been going on is going to deny they know and it will turn into... Jane who doesn't know any better rather than ...the older more experienced staff not doing what it takes to protect other staff from abuse.

The DON definitely needed to be notified that this is going on and the PATIENT needs to be addressed. And a training session perhaps on abuse and safety may be in order. How to gently redirect those who don't know better and how to place boundaries for those patients that DO know better.

I don't find this to be Jane's fault and she shouldn't be called out for allowing it. Sounds like it's the normal behaviour for that patient. Not acceptable. But normal. There is a huge difference.

[xtxrn, ASN, RN]

why is there so much blame on Jane...she's 17 for goodness sakes! If she's working overnights as a CNA I hardly doubt she's a 'good time' kinda girl. I would bet someone else presented this behavior as 'ok' for this patient...to her.

No one likes to be grabbed. I would bet she is very afraid of making a big deal about it though. She's 17. You can bet everyone else who knows this has been going on is going to deny they know and it will turn into... Jane who doesn't know any better rather than ...the older more experienced staff not doing what it takes to protect other staff from abuse.

The DON definitely needed to be notified that this is going on and the PATIENT needs to be addressed. And a training session perhaps on abuse and safety may be in order. How to gently redirect those who don't know better and how to place boundaries for those patients that DO know better.

I don't find this to be Jane's fault and she shouldn't be called out for allowing it. Sounds like it's the normal behaviour for that patient. Not acceptable. But normal. There is a huge difference.

I don't see anyone blaming Jane. (but at 17, most girls have some idea of "good touch" and "bad touch" from the kindergarten talk). It's alarming that she's tolerating it.... Seems to indicate that her ideas of what is acceptable are really messed up...but that doesn't mean any of what happened is her 'fault'. Just not right. I think it shows a whole lot more about Jane's history away from work that she isn't reacting. Whether she's had something done to her, or witnessed it- or was "just" shown incredibly horrible boundaries. JMO. :)