Sex Discrimination or not?

bagladyrn, RN · Apr 5, 2008

I am a male nurse working for almost 2 years on a med surge floor. I recently interviewed for an L&D position. During the panel interview the question came up at to whether I would be able to do the job as to my gender with certain cultures. I question myself now as to should I go to HR to discuss this or leave it. If I fight on this point, I feel I have a good chance of winning, but I would still have to work with those that did not feel I could do the job because of my sex. This is the second time I have interviewed and the manager suggests I try mother baby post partum of which I have been turned down for in the past for other reasons.
Tell me what you think.

Unfortunately this kind of discrimination does exist in OB, even more so in the south. The issue of "certain cultures" objection to a male nurse would require no more accomodation than it would for arranging to have a female doctor,rt,lab tech, etc. in the room rather than male - these are special accomodation all the way around.

You probably could grieve this and force them to give you a position on the unit if one was open, but as you said, you would have to deal with the prejudices of the coworkers compounded by the hostility they may exhibit if forced into it. Not a good learning environment at all.

That said, I have worked with some excellent male nurses in OB as well as one male midwife. One man in particular did a lot to change the views of the staff by his skill and professionalism. If you truly feel drawn to L&D you might be better off exploring positions at other facilities until you find one willing to be innovative. Though you won't find them in FL, union facilities would give you more resources for appealing discrimination, as would federal facilities.

Good Luck!

Jeffthenurse · Apr 5, 2008

I just don't understand why a patient would get upset at a male nurse if their doctor is a man? Why are male nurses thought of as possible sexual predators when male physicians are not? After all the abuse that female nurses have taken from male physicians, why do they choose to take it out on male nurses?

If you really want the job, I think you should make an issue out of the sexual discrimination issue. No doubt, if it were a woman applying for a position normally held by a man and she was treated this way, she would file a complaint pronto!

If the subject of culture comes up, my answer would be that the reason the patient is in the hospital is to get professional treatment so that they could heal.....culture and religion are important but since when should professionals have to compromise safety, healing, or potential outcomes because of the patient's religion? Also, their insurance companies are paying for their care and therefore, the patients have no right to discriminate against the staff. If they want to pay for their hospitalizations themselves, then they can discriminate based on gender.

leslie :-D · Apr 5, 2008

If the subject of culture comes up, my answer would be that the reason the patient is in the hospital is to get professional treatment so that they could heal.....culture and religion are important but since when should professionals have to compromise safety, healing, or potential outcomes because of the patient's religion? Also, their insurance companies are paying for their care and therefore, the patients have no right to discriminate against the staff. If they want to pay for their hospitalizations themselves, then they can discriminate based on gender.

the employer cannot discriminate.

however, the female pt in l&d, most certainly can.

if she does not want a male nurse, she can and will, refuse.

leslie

Jeffthenurse · Apr 5, 2008

Earle 58......One of these days, the patient's insurance company will then deny payment based on the patient's refusal. It may take some time but I've been a nurse for a long time and have seen insurance companies look for ANY reason not to have to pay a bill.

What would happen today if male patients refused a female nurse/physician/physical therapist, etc? Do you think the hospital would accomodate them? I don't think many hospitals could and I think they would ask some of those patients to leave.

leslie :-D · Apr 5, 2008

jeff, it may be trending to that point, but i don't think we'll see insurance changes for another 25 yrs.

as it stands today, a pt has a right to refuse care from whoever is providing it.

if a satisfactory substitute cannot be found, it still is up to the pt whether to accept care from the original but undesired nurse:

or, to refuse care altogether.

ultimately, it still is up to the pt.

i wouldn't anticipate any changes in insurance payments, for many yrs to come.

leslie

Jeffthenurse · Apr 5, 2008

Earle, I don't think it will take 25 years: I've already seen Medicaid and Medicare start billing non-compliant patients in the home care setting or denying payment. Also, once a hospital admits a patient, the hospital has a duty to treat the patient to the best of their ability. If a patient refuses treatment based on some ridiculous discrimination, the hospital may not be able to treat that patient and might have to show them the door. I believe that soon, patients will be held accountable for their actions or their refusal to comply. No one should be FORCED to accept treatment but if they refuse to accept care based on sound principles because of a gender or race issue, then what is that patient doing in that hospital? Wasting everyone's time and effort.

Not to mention the role that lawsuits play....one of these days, staff will threaten or will sue the patients for slander, libel, violence, etc, then look out!

birdgardner · Apr 5, 2008

I made major efforts to see female obstetricians or midwives. The OB-GYN practice I use now has two female and one male physician and he is the only male physician I have ever felt truly comfortable with. But I had a chance to build up a relationship there as opposed to being assigned a nurse who is a total stranger when I went in for labor.

A woman is very vulnerable and impressionable when she is in labor - any stresses or inconsiderate treatment (as she perceives it) can leave a very lasting impression and risk for PPD. If she is comfortable with a male nurse, fine; if not, will she be assertive enough to ask for another? Will she have that choice?

My blood pressure went up 30 points when my CNM had a male nursing student take my blood pressure - and that's all he did or was present for.

I was assigned to a male nurse in an OB situation and requested and was given another one.

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Apr 5, 2008

Jeff,

This is certainly discrimination. Unfortunately, as the other posters have pointed out, there is lots to be considered here. I wish you luck, I know if given the opportunity you would make a good L/D nurse.

vashtee, RN · Apr 5, 2008

I just don't understand why a patient would get upset at a male nurse if their doctor is a man? .

Some religions don't allow for this kind of intimate care between genders. These people would not have a male physician either, and depending on how devout they are, they might very well leave AMA before they allowed a male to see them this way.

I don't think the question asked by the employer was out of line. Sorry.

lvnandmomx3 · Apr 5, 2008

IMHO it is discrimination. I don't see why if a male decided to become a Dr. no one tells him he can choose whatever pracitce he wants but can't do OB, from what I have seem most ob's are male. Yes a female needs to be In the room for all examinations even in the office for routine. So the same provisions could be made for a male nurse. It does not even have to be a female nurse it could be an aide or even unit secretary. When I was an admitting clerk and working the family life center if the nurses where busy the Dr. would ask me to be present in the room for him. I do not think it is fair at all that a male can not work ob if they want to.

Like you and others have said, I would be for you pushing the issue in HR but I really do not see the end result being very benefited. Yeah you could win but then what kids of atmosphere would the working conditions be for you?

ilstu99 · Apr 5, 2008

I just don't understand why a patient would get upset at a male nurse if their doctor is a man? Why are male nurses thought of as possible sexual predators when male physicians are not? After all the abuse that female nurses have taken from male physicians, why do they choose to take it out on male nurses?
If you really want the job, I think you should make an issue out of the sexual discrimination issue. No doubt, if it were a woman applying for a position normally held by a man and she was treated this way, she would file a complaint pronto!
If the subject of culture comes up, my answer would be that the reason the patient is in the hospital is to get professional treatment so that they could heal.....culture and religion are important but since when should professionals have to compromise safety, healing, or potential outcomes because of the patient's religion? Also, their insurance companies are paying for their care and therefore, the patients have no right to discriminate against the staff. If they want to pay for their hospitalizations themselves, then they can discriminate based on gender.

I don't think it usually has anything to do with a "sexual predator" feeling, or "taking (anything) out" on anyone.

We respect a lot of religious and cultural practices, even if it requires less aggressive treatment that may result in the end of a patient's life. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to say that one practice is more important or reasonable than the other?

I certainly hope that patients can still have some control over their own healthcare. Not to mention that patients often have insurance because they pay for it, and they should retain at least some authority. Coverage is not a gift from the really nice insurance people.

Also, I know of several instances where men (often their wives) have refused a female RN when there was a male RN available. By the same token, we have male nurses in our OB department...and patients (often their husbands) have requested a female RN instead. I think it's awesome that we have options that allow all of our patients to be comfortable.

Vac....I think a question about whether or not your gender would impact your ability with some patients is a fair one. Asking the question doesn't mean that you would be denied a job because of that issue. During my peer interview, I was asked quit a few "delicate" questions. If they impact my ability to perform, may burden my coworkers with additional responsibilities, or may not suit my patients....they're fair game, IMO.

I don't think it's a point I would probably argue, unless someone was dumb enough to say, "we don't hire men in this department." Otherwise, they'll come up with some other reason you weren't hired...and that just won't go well for anyone.