Rn/md - page 2

Has anyone ever thought about going back to medical school? I was just wondering if many nurses thought about becoming doctors? Thanks:)... Read More

  1. by   Daytonite
    Quote from ELKMNin06
    where are these MD's employed? What is the difference in the job description of an MD and DO? I mean, what can one do that the other can't?
    Well, Buckeye (I was born and raised in the Cleveland area), both are physicians. All states recognize DOs as physicians. The difference is in the medical theory behind their teaching. Most of the subjects DOs take in medical school are exactly the same. DOs are also taught the techniques of manipulating the bones similar to chiropractors. They can both do all the same things except that the DOs will do spinal adjustments in their offices and MDs will not. The DO medical theory is that they are merely there to facilitate the body in healing itself. MD medical theory is they heal. There's a big difference in those two ideas. My DO friend does accupuncture. He asked to do a clerkship during his last year as a resident in Shanghai to study acupuncture and was permitted to do this. An AMA program would have thought he was nuts. He does acupuncture in his office if his patients request it. How many MDs do you know who will do this? I did agency work at an osteopathic hospital in Cleveland. The admission assessments by the DO residents was very different from the H&P the MDs do. They did an extensive assessment of the patient's neuromuscular system along with the regular ROS and physical exam that MDs do. They also can order medications and treatments. They were doctors in every sense of the word.

    My MD friend works for Kaiser Permanente. My DO friend has his own practice in a heavily populated asian area and specifically targets the more traditional asians who would rather have their teeth pulled than see a western doctor! He cultivates trust by being willing to listen to them, perform some acupuncture if they'd like, and then gradually tries to get them to accept the more modern treatments. He saw this traditional superstition in the asian population as being a real problem for them. After all, they came to America to have a better life, but then are very suspicious. It is very hard to break superstitious beliefs. He saw friends of his parents die horrible deaths from cancer and other diseases because they refused western medical treatment. He believes in meditation as a treatment modality. He will also occassionally give patient's an OK to herbal treatments as well. He knows several traditional chinese doctors who diagnose people by taking their pulse. Have you ever heard of that? These are the kind of doctors the people of China have had and are still found all around China. When I was looking for alternative treatments to go along with the radiation therapy I was getting for cancer some years ago, he took me to one of these doctors who gave me a prescription for herbs. I was taken to a Chinese herbal pharmacist who filled this prescription and gave me three large packages of herbs which I was to brew into a tea for the next three days. The tea tasted like sh--. I had acupuncture of my surgical site as well. Today, I'm cancer-free. Don't know if it was the surgery and radiation therapy, the herbs or the acupuncture. I don't care either. All I know is I'm alive. My surgeon thought I was crazy when I told him what I was doing. That's an MD for you.

    Are you interested in becoming a doc?
  2. by   DeigoT
    I have been an RN for several years (have a masters in nursing), and will be starting meds school next year. I agree, med school is certainly not for everyone.
  3. by   TweetiePieRN
    Quote from ELKMNin06
    Has anyone ever thought about going back to medical school? I was just wondering if many nurses thought about becoming doctors? Thanks
    Going BACK to med school....I never started off there. Nor did I want to be there. Nursing and med school are two different entities. I am not interested in being a doctor. I like not having to be oncall, or being in debt up to my eyeballs thanks to med school.

    Nursing is not a stepping-stone to being a doctor. Nursing is its own profession. That's almost like asking a plumber if they are going to back to mechanic school, so they can fix cars too.

    Sorry, if I sounded harsh. I just think I have heard too many people ask me this.
    Last edit by TweetiePieRN on Oct 31, '05
  4. by   Daytonite
    DeigoT. . .Hope you have a nice big desk. :chuckle My doctor friends were each in a study group and hired someone to type up their class notes and copy them. A copy was given to each member of their study group. When I would go over to visit my girlfriend who's husband was in medical school, the place was nothing but a pile of banker's boxes with files and files of notes from his medical classes. Be prepared for at least one prof who wants to prove a point and bring everyone's ego down a peg or two and flunks everyone on a test. Best of luck to you!
  5. by   DeigoT
    Quote from Daytonite
    DeigoT. . .Hope you have a nice big desk. :chuckle My doctor friends were each in a study group and hired someone to type up their class notes and copy them. A copy was given to each member of their study group. When I would go over to visit my girlfriend who's husband was in medical school, the place was nothing but a pile of banker's boxes with files and files of notes from his medical classes. Be prepared for at least one prof who wants to prove a point and bring everyone's ego down a peg or two and flunks everyone on a test. Best of luck to you!
    Thank You. Will definately keep that in mind.
  6. by   GrnHonu99
    Quote from TweetiePieRN
    Going BACK to med school....I never started off there. Nor did I want to be there. Nursing and med school are two different entities. I am not interested in being a doctor. I like not having to be oncall, or being in debt up to my eyeballs thanks to med school.

    Nursing is not a stepping-stone to being a doctor. Nursing is its own profession. That's almost like asking a plumber if they are going to back to mechanic school, so they can fix cars too.

    Sorry, if I sounded harsh. I just think I have heard too many people ask me this.
    I didn't mean "back to medical school", nor did I imply that nursing was just a stepping stone to medical school. I simply asked if any nurses ever thought of going back to SCHOOL, specifically medical school to become a doctor. I am aware, and am sure most here are, that medical school and nursing school are two different entities. I have not met many nurses that have gone to medical school and I was entertaining the idea, which is why I asked, not in anyway imply that nursing school was/is a stepping stone to medical school, if you read my original post you will see that no where in it did I imply this or mean to imply this.
  7. by   GrnHonu99
    Quote from DeigoT
    I have been an RN for several years (have a masters in nursing), and will be starting meds school next year. I agree, med school is certainly not for everyone.
    Congrats!!!! If you don't mind me asking, what do you think your specialty will be, and what made you decide to pursue an MD rather than an NP?
  8. by   GrnHonu99
    Quote from Daytonite
    Well, Buckeye (I was born and raised in the Cleveland area), both are physicians. All states recognize DOs as physicians. The difference is in the medical theory behind their teaching. Most of the subjects DOs take in medical school are exactly the same. DOs are also taught the techniques of manipulating the bones similar to chiropractors. They can both do all the same things except that the DOs will do spinal adjustments in their offices and MDs will not. The DO medical theory is that they are merely there to facilitate the body in healing itself. MD medical theory is they heal. There's a big difference in those two ideas. My DO friend does accupuncture. He asked to do a clerkship during his last year as a resident in Shanghai to study acupuncture and was permitted to do this. An AMA program would have thought he was nuts. He does acupuncture in his office if his patients request it. How many MDs do you know who will do this? I did agency work at an osteopathic hospital in Cleveland. The admission assessments by the DO residents was very different from the H&P the MDs do. They did an extensive assessment of the patient's neuromuscular system along with the regular ROS and physical exam that MDs do. They also can order medications and treatments. They were doctors in every sense of the word.

    My MD friend works for Kaiser Permanente. My DO friend has his own practice in a heavily populated asian area and specifically targets the more traditional asians who would rather have their teeth pulled than see a western doctor! He cultivates trust by being willing to listen to them, perform some acupuncture if they'd like, and then gradually tries to get them to accept the more modern treatments. He saw this traditional superstition in the asian population as being a real problem for them. After all, they came to America to have a better life, but then are very suspicious. It is very hard to break superstitious beliefs. He saw friends of his parents die horrible deaths from cancer and other diseases because they refused western medical treatment. He believes in meditation as a treatment modality. He will also occassionally give patient's an OK to herbal treatments as well. He knows several traditional chinese doctors who diagnose people by taking their pulse. Have you ever heard of that? These are the kind of doctors the people of China have had and are still found all around China. When I was looking for alternative treatments to go along with the radiation therapy I was getting for cancer some years ago, he took me to one of these doctors who gave me a prescription for herbs. I was taken to a Chinese herbal pharmacist who filled this prescription and gave me three large packages of herbs which I was to brew into a tea for the next three days. The tea tasted like sh--. I had acupuncture of my surgical site as well. Today, I'm cancer-free. Don't know if it was the surgery and radiation therapy, the herbs or the acupuncture. I don't care either. All I know is I'm alive. My surgeon thought I was crazy when I told him what I was doing. That's an MD for you.

    Are you interested in becoming a doc?
    Daytonite, I'm so glad that you are cancer free!!!! CONGRATS...you are a survivor

    Thanks soooo much for the info. I am thinking about going "back" to school to pursue an MD. I really like the idea of a D.O., infact Ive been looking into OU's DO program. The only problem is that I think my interest lies in surgery, if I am correct, I think that only MDs can do that?

    Don't get me wrong, I love nursing and all that it stands for. I am finishing up my MN right now which is a general masters in nursing, if I decide to return for my NP, I will only need the advanced clinical portion, all my other credits will transfer, so here, lies my dilemma.

    I love nursing and what it stands for. It would only take me a little over a year to become an FNP. The only thing is that I love the acute care setting and I haven't seen many NP's in those roles. I also love surgery and after observing the nurses in the OR, I really felt like i'd like to be the one in there doing the procedure! BUT! Med school will be another loooong 4 years and very expensive. OSU will pay for my NP degree in full....no money up front either...sigh...BUT I love to learn and I dont think i'd mind being in school for that long, I like school! Id stay in forever if I could

    So...there is my dilemma...what to do, what to do...hmmmm
  9. by   Dayray
    For a while I considered this but I really don't think med schools teach what i want to know.

    I watch so many doctors get burned out. When they frst get out of med school they try to be good doc's but as the years pass the struggle to balance their personal life and professtional weigh on them. I have seen many well meaning good doctors become calous and seen their care get worse and worse.

    Honestly the current state of things needs to be looked at. I think residancy is a good thing and obvoiusly they need the time they spend in med school but why do they need so much education before they can enter med school? why do they need to take MCAT? its not like it tests on anything relevent to medicine. If the track to becomeing a doctor werent so long and expensive things would be better.

    That being said I have no desire to become a docotor, spend 12 years in school, residancy and then make just a littel more then what i can now (if I work overtime). The only reason I would want to become a doc would'nt be becuse then I would have to deal with being a "male nurse" but I dont think I would like it much anyway.
    Last edit by Dayray on Nov 2, '05
  10. by   AdamRN2007
    Quote from ELKMNin06
    Thanks soooo much for the info. I am thinking about going "back" to school to pursue an MD. I really like the idea of a D.O., infact Ive been looking into OU's DO program. The only problem is that I think my interest lies in surgery, if I am correct, I think that only MDs can do that?
    DO's can perform surgery. Med school graduates, and med students have to take a 3 step licensing exam called the USMLE for MD students, and the COMLEX for DO students. Passing either of these exams after graduation from med school will get you a license to practice medicine, and make you eligible to start a residency.

    While osteopathic physicians can practice in any specialty an MD physician can, osteopathic medicine's focus is in primary care. Since the DO and MD curriculum are so similar, DO's are eligible to take the USMLE's. If a DO would like to become a surgeon s/he may have to take the USMLE and do an MD residency in surgery, or do extremely well on the COMLEX. Otherwise it is difficult for a DO to get accepted into an MD surgical residency.

    Hope this helps a little. Good luck with everything.
    Last edit by AdamRN2007 on Nov 2, '05
  11. by   Terpole
    I'm a student nurse in a B.S.N program in florida and all my pre-med friends try so hard to join the dark side . Many of them have told me they are in it for the money. I think they're all in for a rude awakening at some point down the line, but is it true that the salary between nurses and docs not THAT wide? I mean i know a staff nurse will make a fraction of what, say, a cardiologist would make, but i'm talking about a NP or other advanced practice. Would their salaries be competitive with family practice docs or any others?
  12. by   christvs
    Quote from ELKMNin06
    Daytonite, I'm so glad that you are cancer free!!!! CONGRATS...you are a survivor

    Thanks soooo much for the info. I am thinking about going "back" to school to pursue an MD. I really like the idea of a D.O., infact Ive been looking into OU's DO program. The only problem is that I think my interest lies in surgery, if I am correct, I think that only MDs can do that?

    Don't get me wrong, I love nursing and all that it stands for. I am finishing up my MN right now which is a general masters in nursing, if I decide to return for my NP, I will only need the advanced clinical portion, all my other credits will transfer, so here, lies my dilemma.

    I love nursing and what it stands for. It would only take me a little over a year to become an FNP. The only thing is that I love the acute care setting and I haven't seen many NP's in those roles. I also love surgery and after observing the nurses in the OR, I really felt like i'd like to be the one in there doing the procedure! BUT! Med school will be another loooong 4 years and very expensive. OSU will pay for my NP degree in full....no money up front either...sigh...BUT I love to learn and I dont think i'd mind being in school for that long, I like school! Id stay in forever if I could

    So...there is my dilemma...what to do, what to do...hmmmm

    Hi elk! I will be starting a MSN degree next fall & my focus is in the adult acute care NP track. The hospital I work at (I'm on a med/surg/tele unit) has several NPs who work in a similar role to interns. They work with inpatients, admit them, write their admission orders, note their progress, discharge them,etc. One NP I talked with says she has great hours too-she works 12 noon -8 PM. I hope I get hours like that when I'm done with NP school! Anyhow, I'm like you-I have an interest in acute care-& you can be an NP focusing in that area; I bet it just depends on where you live & the hospitals you look at.
    -Christine
  13. by   group_theory
    Quote from AdamRN2007
    DO's can perform surgery. Med school graduates, and med students have to take a 3 step licensing exam called the USMLE for MD students, and the COMLEX for DO students. Passing either of these exams after graduation from med school will get you a license to practice medicine, and make you eligible to start a residency.

    While osteopathic physicians can practice in any specialty an MD physician can, osteopathic medicine's focus is in primary care. Since the DO and MD curriculum are so similar, DO's are eligible to take the USMLE's. If a DO would like to become a surgeon s/he may have to take the USMLE and do an MD residency in surgery, or do extremely well on the COMLEX. Otherwise it is difficult for a DO to get accepted into an MD surgical residency.

    Hope this helps a little. Good luck with everything.
    EXCELLENT RESPONSE!!!!!

    The US-trained DO is the professional and legal equivalent to an MD in the United States. Anything that MDs can do, DOs can do (including surgery). Depending on where you are, some of your docs might be DOs (and you just haven't noticed until now)

    I have seen some DOs doing MD surgery residencies. There are also DO surgery residencies that are exclusively for DOs (MDs can't apply).

    If you are interested in learning more about osteopathic medicine, check out the AOA's website (American Osteopathic Association) - http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_main

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