Rn/md

christvs, DNP, RN, NP · Nov 3, 2005

Daytonite, I'm so glad that you are cancer free!!!! CONGRATS...you are a survivor:)
Thanks soooo much for the info. I am thinking about going "back" to school to pursue an MD. I really like the idea of a D.O., infact Ive been looking into OU's DO program. The only problem is that I think my interest lies in surgery, if I am correct, I think that only MDs can do that?
Don't get me wrong, I love nursing and all that it stands for. I am finishing up my MN right now which is a general masters in nursing, if I decide to return for my NP, I will only need the advanced clinical portion, all my other credits will transfer, so here, lies my dilemma.
I love nursing and what it stands for. It would only take me a little over a year to become an FNP. The only thing is that I love the acute care setting and I haven't seen many NP's in those roles. I also love surgery and after observing the nurses in the OR, I really felt like i'd like to be the one in there doing the procedure! BUT! Med school will be another loooong 4 years and very expensive. OSU will pay for my NP degree in full....no money up front either...sigh...BUT I love to learn and I dont think i'd mind being in school for that long, I like school! Id stay in forever if I could:)
So...there is my dilemma...what to do, what to do...hmmmm:):)

Hi elk! I will be starting a MSN degree next fall & my focus is in the adult acute care NP track. The hospital I work at (I'm on a med/surg/tele unit) has several NPs who work in a similar role to interns. They work with inpatients, admit them, write their admission orders, note their progress, discharge them,etc. One NP I talked with says she has great hours too-she works 12 noon -8 PM. I hope I get hours like that when I'm done with NP school! Anyhow, I'm like you-I have an interest in acute care-& you can be an NP focusing in that area; I bet it just depends on where you live & the hospitals you look at.

-Christine

group_theory · Nov 3, 2005

DO's can perform surgery. Med school graduates, and med students have to take a 3 step licensing exam called the USMLE for MD students, and the COMLEX for DO students. Passing either of these exams after graduation from med school will get you a license to practice medicine, and make you eligible to start a residency.
While osteopathic physicians can practice in any specialty an MD physician can, osteopathic medicine's focus is in primary care. Since the DO and MD curriculum are so similar, DO's are eligible to take the USMLE's. If a DO would like to become a surgeon s/he may have to take the USMLE and do an MD residency in surgery, or do extremely well on the COMLEX. Otherwise it is difficult for a DO to get accepted into an MD surgical residency.
Hope this helps a little. Good luck with everything.

EXCELLENT RESPONSE!!!!!

The US-trained DO is the professional and legal equivalent to an MD in the United States. Anything that MDs can do, DOs can do (including surgery). Depending on where you are, some of your docs might be DOs (and you just haven't noticed until now)

I have seen some DOs doing MD surgery residencies. There are also DO surgery residencies that are exclusively for DOs (MDs can't apply).

If you are interested in learning more about osteopathic medicine, check out the AOA's website (American Osteopathic Association) - http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_main

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Nov 3, 2005

I am thinking about going "back" to school to pursue an MD. I really like the idea of a D.O., infact Ive been looking into OU's DO program. The only problem is that I think my interest lies in surgery, if I am correct, I think that only MDs can do that?

DO's can perform surgery. . .If a DO would like to become a surgeon s/he may have to take the USMLE and do an MD residency in surgery, or do extremely well on the COMLEX. Otherwise it is difficult for a DO to get accepted into an MD surgical residency.

My friend who is a DO did his year of internship (or some call it the first year of residency) in an MD sponsored program which he had to really search for. He says it was the worst year of his life. It wasn't the content, but the constant hours he had to be in the clinical area and be on call. He was so sleep-deprived that he worried he wouldn't make it. He was in his late 30's at the time. And, he did, in fact, switch to a DO residency for his remaining 3 years. The difference was like night and day, he said. He was able to get sleep and he said the clinical supervisors were a lot nicer. Many of the preceptors (I don't know if that's a correct term for a resident's clinical supervisor) were DOs who had their own practices, so that is where he spent a lot of his time, although he had to follow all the DO's inpatients. On the days and nights he was to be on call in the hospital it was pretty much like any MD resident: taking calls from the nurses on the nursing units and attending to problems and mostly seeing patients in the ER as well. I didn't know about this difference in surgical training. It seems to me that a good number of DOs are in orthopedics. Osteopathy and orthopedics seem to kind of go together. I'm trying to think if the osteopathic hospital I had done staff relief in did surgery. I'm almost sure they did. This was a teaching hospital as well (it's in the Cleveland, Ohio area).

Anyway, over the past 15 years or so I've specifically sought out DOs as my internists and have been very pleased with the care I've gotten from them.

arciedee · Nov 3, 2005

I would like to go to medical school for the learning aspect of it. The knowledge base is so vast, I think that it would be interesting. Of course, I can satisfy that desire by furthering my education in nursing as well. To me there is still something to be said about having that medical degree.
That said, I can soundly say that, NO, I would not want to be a doctor. While I enjoy most of the docs that I work with and have not had many bad experiences with them, I just wouldn't want that kind of schedule. On call at weird hours. Minimal time spent with patients. I only know one doctor that I can tell just loves his job for what he does- he is fantastic. The other docs that I work with may like their jobs but don't show is in all their actions. I don't know, the lifestyle of it just isn't for me.

:yeahthat:

When I first started thinking seriously about entering the healthcare field (it's something that's always interested me but for whatever reason decided not to pursue it in college) I was thinking entirely of going to medical school and started working on pre-reqs for that. The biggest thing that kept nagging me, however, was that by the time I finished pre-reqs, the application process, medical school, residency, I would be in my mid-thirties with a boatload of debt. And NO option of quitting work or cutting back hours to raise a family. This was a huge sticking point for me. I tried to ignore it for a while and kept plugging away. I loved my chemistry classes and really wanted to go to medical school. But a year or so ago I realized that wanting to go to medical school and wanting to be a doctor were two very different things. I'd love to learn more about disease processes and experience everything that med students do, but in the end the job of physician is not something that met my personal career goals. I wanted a job where I could interact with my patients at a more intimate level, one that would allow me a greater number of career paths, and one that would allow me to have a family on my own terms. I do plan on eventually earning my doctorate in nursing, though.

It's a very tough choice and I don't think that there is any one "right" route. It's something you have to evaluate for yourself. You may want to check out oldpremeds.org I know of a few nurses and former nurses on there.

GrnHonu99, RN · Nov 3, 2005

It is a very tough choice...I have been wrestling with this for awhile...I guess I am just afraid to apply...My undergrad grades are NOT med school worthy, but my grades in graduate school are great (3.8) and it is 5x more difficult than my undergrad! Talk about intense!!!

I wish I had done better in undergrad. I wouldn't be upset if I knew that I did the best that I could but I know that I put minimal effort into my undergrad degree and I got the grades that I deserved...the only thing I can say about that was that I was young and stupid and had tunnel vision!! I had no idea what I really wanted to do with my life until after I graduated!!! Now I am sure that I want to be in the medical field somewhere and I am trying to find my niche...

I am not in it for the money...well, I wont lie, I will be happy to make a decent salary (ive been poor for so long that 40k/yr seems like a ton!) but money isnt why Id want to go...and im not worried about the school part..if there is one thing i'm good at it is being a student and now that I am where Id like to be I have no doubt that I could do it...the work doesnt really bother me...plus I dont have any obligations other than my fiencee..not to say that someday ill want to have a family...thats another thing to think about...

I really just want to go bc I want to know...know everything I possibly can...everything about the medical field fascinates me....it really is a "calling" for me...

But who knows...if I could find an NP position in an acute care setting I can't say id rather do that bc I really like how nurses view health, as hollistic and more preventitive....but who knows...thanks for listening and all the really really good advice!!!!

GrnHonu99, RN · Nov 3, 2005

:yeahthat:
When I first started thinking seriously about entering the healthcare field (it's something that's always interested me but for whatever reason decided not to pursue it in college)
I know, I ask myself everyday why I didn't just do BSN in college rather than going the way I did but I don't regret it, ive learned soooo much!!!

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Nov 22, 2005

ElkMNin06. . .well, I just got an answer back from my friend, the D.O., about surgical residencies for osteopaths. It only took him three weeks to answer my e-mail. He must be busy.

Anyway, he says that, yes, there are residencies in surgery for osteopaths at osteopathic hospitals. Whoever was saying that D.O.s need to do a residency with an AMA program was incorrect.

rach_nc_03 · Nov 22, 2005

He knows several traditional chinese doctors who diagnose people by taking their pulse. Have you ever heard of that? These are the kind of doctors the people of China have had and are still found all around China.

before i was diagnosed with endometriosis, i saw an accupuncturist to help control my pain. before he even asked what was wrong, he took my pulses and told me my chi was blocked on the right side of my body.

turns out i had tons of abdominal adhesions- all on the right side- from the endo.

as for the OP's question, #1- i have two friends who are nurses who went back to school to become DO's. they both chose that route because the wholistic care was a better fit with the philosophy they developed as nurses.

#2- the doctor i've seen for a lingering orthopedic issue is a DO. When i saw him for a broken foot, and he took my history, i mentioned my recurring headaches, and he referred me to a neurologist for help with chronic daily migraines. i ended up getting on a medicaton regimen that finally worked. i was impressed that he pursued that problem after hearing about it, even though it wasn't my chief complaint.

#3- i find the attitude of hospitals toward DO's interesting...where i work now, there are only a handful of DO's practicing. Where i did clinicals in school- another research hospital, similar size- there are tons of them. I've found, on average, DO's are more open to teaching (both patients and other staff) than MD's. Don't flame me for making a generalization- just been my experience. :rolleyes:

heartICU · Nov 22, 2005

The only thing is that I love the acute care setting and I haven't seen many NP's in those roles. I also love surgery and after observing the nurses in the OR, I really felt like i'd like to be the one in there doing the procedure!

You can always do RNFA. First assists are part of the surgical team - they harvest vein grafts for cardiac bypass, etc. Might be what you are looking for (combination of surgery and nursing).

GrnHonu99, RN · Nov 22, 2005

ElkMNin06. . .well, I just got an answer back from my friend, the D.O., about surgical residencies for osteopaths. It only took him three weeks to answer my e-mail. He must be busy.
Anyway, he says that, yes, there are residencies in surgery for osteopaths at osteopathic hospitals. Whoever was saying that D.O.s need to do a residency with an AMA program was incorrect.

ty Daytonite!! Something to definetly think about. I am half way through my MN program!:) I have been thinking about med school more everyday... I think being a nurse will help me be an excellent doc. I have met a few MDs lately that I know I DONT want to be like...almost makes me want to be a doc for that reason only..just so i wont be like them...

zenman · Nov 23, 2005

Today, if I were going to choose a profession in healthcare, it would be holistic medicine only.

Same for me...I veered off into Asian bodywork and now going to NP school so I can practive integrative medicine.