religion in the workplace

Nurses General Nursing

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There was a ghost story thread about posessed people dying and taunting the nurses after begging them not to let them die. It inspired the question: How many of you are religious, and do you ever offer to pray for or with a patient whose frightened of dying?

Specializes in ICU, L&D, Home Health.

This thread is staying really interesting....

As for the discussion regarding silent prayer, I agree that we really don't need the thought police. I extend my disbelief in "magical thinking" to prayer- someone else's certainly won't harm me, and if it helps them to be a better nurse, more power to them. Verbal prayers would irk me.

Queenjean I understand the discomfort with the idea of someone offering a prayer to "forgive her sins and accept her into the fold of your Kingdom". Not because I think it would have any material effect on what, if anything, happens to the self after death, but because it is a statement that you are spiritually unacceptable in their eyes, and they feel the need, in a paternalistic way, to kindly offer an apology to their god in your passing to his judgment.

I think, at our deaths, we have the need to hear that we are accepted for what we are. Those of us in the minority are often forced to keep quiet about our beliefs most of the time in order to avoid unkind words, judgments, and frequent proselytizing. It would be nice to have such judgments suspended at the crucial moment.

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LadyNASDAQ said:
I have been a Nurse for 28 years. I was taught NEVER do any religious anything , ever at the bedside. Family are funny. They can sue you based on you telling their loved on it's ok to let go and die. The problem is you will probably lose the case on the grounds of undermining family and the rights of the patient believe it or not. Instead, you call Clergy in and let them do their job. I also know that I have heard of Nurses getting fired for religion at the workplace. This is a sensitive subject. It's also against the code of ethics and standards of care in many hospitals so I would sidestep it altogether and let Clergy take care of it. Just be sure it was charted that a Rep from that person's religion came to give prayer like a Priest giving Sacrament for the Sick for ex.

Well yeah, someone can sue you for spitting on the sidewalk, and that is even against the law in some places, but I think you would have to search far and wide for a jury that would award anything for it.

I would never tell anyone that "it's ok to let go and die"....that seems to negative...I would probably hold someone's hand and say, "it's going to be ok..."...and no matter if you are religious or not...it IS going to be ok if someone is suffering...but not "it's ok to let go and die".

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Specializes in Lie detection.
Hopefull2009 said:
Well yeah, someone can sue you for spitting on the sidewalk, and that is even against the law in some places, but I think you would have to search far and wide for a jury that would award anything for it.

I would never tell anyone that "it's ok to let go and die"....that seems to negative...I would probably hold someone's hand and say, "it's going to be ok..."...and no matter if you are religious or not...it IS going to be ok if someone is suffering...but not "it's ok to let go and die".

Well this is veering off the subject a bit but there were quite a few times when we in the ICU would tell our dying pt's that it was ok to "let go". You know what? They did! Sometimes my dear, these dying patients do need to hear that it is truly ok and then they feel comfortable to move on. It's not negative at all but a caring gesture.

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The answer to your question is twofold, and I'm not sure it will help

Part of the answer depends on your perspective. If you don't believe theree is anything after this life, and you're right, Respecting your bbeliefs is the primary concern. Hoewver, if you believe in heaven, and that belief is true, and you know you won't go to Heaven unless someone prays that you will be forgiven, you may be hoping for an intecesor. If that same person believes in Heaven, and that there are demons trying to keep you from going there, and if your Christian faith teaches that demons like to pretend to be gods to decieve people into worshipping them, you may have every reason to be repelled by the prayers of a non-christian. Ultimately, i need to respect your beliefs, but if I believe as you do that you ****might***** go to a bad place without prayer, the silent prayer without your knowing it could be a blessing in disguise*****if***** the person praying is correct about the afterlife, if not, then you are correct and it is inconsiderate of the patient.

queenjean said:
I still can't tell if we are on the same plane or not. I think maybe we actually agree on this, but then again....

Maybe *I'm* not being clear. If I come in, and I'm in a full code, let's say from a car wreck, and there is no one there to tell you that I am an athiest, is it acceptable to have the chaplin there praying over me? What if you *do* know I'm an athiest, does that change the acceptability of having a chaplin pray over me? In either of these situations, is it okay for the nurse to silently pray for me?

I guess we can't police thoughts; if I'm coding and you offer up a silent prayer, something like "Please God let this chick live," what skin off my back is it? But I think it would be disrespectful to offer up a little prayer like, "Please God, forgive this woman of her sins and accept her soul into your kingdom." or something like that. To me there is a difference, somehow. Does anyone else see any difference, or am I being a freak (which, I will admit, is a fairly strong possibility)? One seems like more of a general request, almost as much or more for the nurse than for the patient; the other seems like, I don't know, trying to get one more soul for the Kingdom of Heaven, you know?

However, if it IS okay to silently pray over someone, whether you know their religion or not, whether they give you permission or not; if it is okay to do that in a Christian way, it is okay to do it in *any* religious way. If it is okay for you, as a Christian, to offer up a silent prayer for me when I come in to the ER in full code, it is okay for a pagan nurse to offer up a silent prayer to her own goddess in the same situation. Does that sound right to you, to anyone out there? And I don't know; *IS* it okay to do that? What is wrong with it? What harm does it do anyone, to offer up a silent prayer to whomever? Can we solve the great questions of spirituality on allnurses.com?

Seriously, though, it does seem like there is a difference to me, praying for someone to be okay, and requesting that a God or Goddess accept your soul into his/her fold. I can't really articulate *why* there seems to be a difference to me; but I do feel that way.

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Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
CASbeezgirlRN said:
Well this is veering off the subject a bit but there were quite a few times when we in the ICU would tell our dying pt's that it was ok to "let go". You know what? They did! Sometimes my dear, these dying patients do need to hear that it is truly ok and then they feel comfortable to move on. It's not negative at all but a caring gesture.

Absolutely. I saw this in hospice as well.

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Specializes in ICU, Research, Corrections.
CASbeezgirlRN said:
Well this is veering off the subject a bit but there were quite a few times when we in the ICU would tell our dying pt's that it was ok to "let go". You know what? They did! Sometimes my dear, these dying patients do need to hear that it is truly ok and then they feel comfortable to move on. It's not negative at all but a caring gesture.

My thoughts exactly. I have told patients this a few times and I will continue to say it if it needs to be said. I would never tell them "things will be OK" if they aren't going to be!

OTOH, I used to work with a nurse in ICU that would constantly tell her patients that "she would pray for them" at the end of her shift. Personally, as a patient, I would find this somewhat offensive. It would spin things out of control in my head and I would think, "she's going to pray for me? I must be more sick than I thought, maybe it means I am going to die soon!)

I am not a religious person; I consider myself a spiritual person. I have prayed with pt's at their request. I will not lead a prayer, but will respectfully bow my head and say amen.

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Specializes in Community, OB, Nursery.
TazziRN said:

Thank you for putting your head on the block this time!

Mine's been bitten off before too. Helps me develop thick skin. ;)

The reason I'm not offended is that, as a Christian, I don't believe that prayers to any other God have any effect one way or the other. But, as I said, it does mean something to me that someone else is concerned for my well-being. I have plenty of friends with beliefs different from my own and I don't feel threatened by what someone else believes. Obviously, I believe that what I believe is the truth, otherwise I wouldn't believe it.

On the "it's ok to let go" subject, I have had friends let go and die after hearing this from nurses, friends, and/or family. People do hang on sometimes, and they need to know that the people/situations they're leaving behind will be ok.

I am learning a lot from this thread, and I'm glad that we are able to have a healthy, intelligent conversation about a sensitive subject. I'm going to have a look at those websites that Ophelia mentioned.

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Hoozdo said:
My thoughts exactly. I have told patients this a few times and I will continue to say it if it needs to be said. I would never tell them "things will be OK" if they aren't going to be!

OTOH, I used to work with a nurse in ICU that would constantly tell her patients that "she would pray for them" at the end of her shift. Personally, as a patient, I would find this somewhat offensive. It would spin things out of control in my head and I would think, "she's going to pray for me? I must be more sick than I thought, maybe it means I am going to die soon!)

I am not a religious person; I consider myself a spirtual person. I have prayed with pt's at their request. I will not lead a prayer, but will respectfully bow my head and say amen.

If someone is not used to praying except in a crisis they might think they're checking out, but if you explain that you pray all the time for people who are suffering, and if they would like, you'd pray for them too, it would ease their concern. I personally hope that if I ever am going to die, the nurses don't sweet talk me into thinking I'll be Okay so that I don't know I need to make my peace with God.

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Specializes in Cardiac, ER.

Fascinating discussion,...I have a very sincere question queenjean,..lets go back to the car accident,..assuming you don't have athiest tattooed to your forehead,..would you be offended if I, as your nurse, told you that I was praying for you??,...My prayers are never on the line of "please forgive this sinner",....but I pray for pt's to have a sense of calm, of being cared for and loved, to ease thier suffering,.same for families and I always pray for staff to be kind, to be able to do thier jobs to the best of thier ability. My prayers are almost always silent, but I do sometimes tell pt's that I'm praying for them,..just curious as to how you, as my athiest pt would feel about that,.because honestly at that point, what is best for you is what counts!

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Specializes in NICU, PACU, Pediatrics.

Yesterday at work, the trauma surgeon was preparing to do a procedure that could end the life of the patient if it didn't work and he asked us all to take a minute and pray that she would survive and everyone in the room stopped as we said a silent prayer. I would never force someone to pray but I have been asked many times in my career to pray for people and would never refuse to do so. I have said many silent prayers for patients.

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RN-Cardiac said:
Fascinating discussion,...I have a very sincere question queenjean,..lets go back to the car accident,..assuming you don't have athiest tattooed to your forehead,..would you be offended if I, as your nurse, told you that I was praying for you??,...My prayers are never on the line of "please forgive this sinner",....but I pray for pt's to have a sense of calm, of being cared for and loved, to ease thier suffering,.same for families and I always pray for staff to be kind, to be able to do thier jobs to the best of thier ability. My prayers are almost always silent, but I do sometimes tell pt's that I'm praying for them,..just curious as to how you, as my athiest pt would feel about that,.because honestly at that point, what is best for you is what counts!

Here's my honest answer: I wouldn't call it *offended*, but I think that I would be annoyed.

When one of my patients says, "God Bless you, you've been so good to me," or "I'll say a prayer for you tonight, you're like my guardian angel," I smile and thank them, and take it as I feel it is meant, a very sincere thank you and well-wishing. If someone who has a position of power over me or who is in someway in charge of me tells me they are praying for me, I think my initial reaction is "Forget the freakin prayer, concentrate on my O2 sats instead!!!! Am I in church or the hospital here!?!?" Even though I am 100% positive that your intent and sentiments are the exact same as my previous example of my patients, I honestly would still find it annoying and somehow inappropriate. Not that you cared for me, but that you stated it in that way. I'm not sure that is the most mature response; but I'm being honest here.

I think it has something to do with the position we are in; are we the weak, helpless ones, dependent on someone else; or are we the ones with the power, helping someone who has not much choice but to accept our help? Does that make sense?

Any other athiests or people from non-dominant religions out there care to weigh in?

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I'd like to add, if I were hospitalized in a religious hospital, where the nurses are also sometimes nuns, I wouldn't have that reaction. I spent 5 days in a catholic hospital where several of my nurses were nuns (interestingly enough, now that I think of it, all my NIGHT nurses were nuns, what is up with that?). I had a big old crucifix above my bed and they were always telling me they were praying for me and my baby--and I didn't find it offensive. I guess it's because I expected it of them, since I was in a Catholic hospital and they were nuns, I just figured it came with the territory. And it WAS comforting, as was all of the care they provided.

So I don't know. You probably can't win with me. I guess you just have to go with what you think is right. Because honestly, in the end I don't care if you are catholic, protestant, jewish, or believe that you are the incarnation of Jesus Christ AND the next Dali Lama, as long as you are a good nurse and are kind, I don't care. I mean, I'd also find it annoying if you had smeared lip stick on your teeth and you were wearing Polo cologne (not that it is bad, but I've got some bad memories from the 80s of that), but I wouldn't hold it against you, either.

I'd also like to point out, like most athiests I know, I'm not an athiest because I WANT to be; it's because it is what I honestly believe, deep down in my heart. And I'm not anti-religion. I've got an 11 year old who is Wiccan and an 8 year old who goes to church every Sunday at her own request with her uncle and cousins, who are all catholic. Just like most of you who believe in God believe it because it is what you KNOW is true, I honestly know that MY belief in the absence of a god is true. I actually like the Catholic church best (not the church that I grew up attending, my mom is protestant), and would probably join if I were a believer in God. But I can't, because I'm not. Just trying to explain athiests here.

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