Nurses children and vaccinations, how do you feel? - page 3

I am on another forum that is very anti-vaccinations for children (or anyone for that matter), and it got me thinking how do nurses and other healthcare workers feel about vaccinations and... Read More

  1. by   StrwbryblndRN
    To all you nurses you do not vaccinate and call yourselves weird. GOOD FOR YOU. I am glad to hear that people make choices for themselves and it works. I vaccinate my kids but I do not get the flu shot and wait till the last minute to take my kids to the doctor.
    I hate antibiotics (my husband is immune to some because he was prescribed too many over the years). So I can understand others view points where health is concerned. Even though I vaccinate, I do not do other "normal" things that parents would do.
    I say to each their own.
  2. by   StrwbryblndRN
    Quote from nptobee
    I have an 11 y/o daughter. I am against this new vaccine for some strains of Human Papilloma Virus. I think I heard that Texas is requiring it now for girls aged 9-13(?). That's makes me angry. My daughter will not be getting that vaccine.
    If cervical cancer comes from HPV, then it is quite preventable. I don't like the idea of assuming that everyone will be having unprotected, early sex.

    I agree, I would think education of HPV and the vaccine would be a better fit than required immunizations. My daughter is only 4 so I have time to make a decision and wait till the vaccine has been out for some time. But I want it to be MY decision not law makers.
  3. by   Jo Dirt
    Quote from arizonanurse
    Neither did I It's nice to find other heretics out there.

    Seriously though, sometimes I DO feel like a hypocrite when I vaccinate babies at work, or give the flu shot (which I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of, but that's another story) or give Tylenol for a temp of 101...and then go home and tell my friends not to worry unless their fever is over 104 and not to take anything to bring it down because it's the body's way of fighting off infection.
    I was called out to give two flu vaccines when I was doing home health. I told those patients "I wouldn't have one of them shots for nuthin' "(I'm from the South, after all). They still wanted the shots. One of the patients ended up in the hospital a week later. The other one apparently suffered no ill effects.
  4. by   Rabid Badger
    Quote from GardenDove
    I always ask my pts if they are uncomfortable, regarding their temps. I sincerely believe the healthcare is about choice. I agree, I never medicated my kids' temps. Instead I wrapped them up in warm blankets or gave them a hot bath. The body feels chilled because it NEEDS a temp to do it's job!
    This is untrue. The fever is a symptom of the immune reaction to infection, not the cause of the immune reaction. You can treat the fever with meds without affecting the immune response. By giving tylenol, you reduce pt discomfort, reduce dangerously high temps, and therefore can reduce tachycardia, resps and a whole host of other cascading factors. Reducing temp in no way decreases our ability to respond to the infection.

    If you truly beleive in informed consent, then it is imperative that you know what you are talking about when providing the options. We are not doing any service to the patient by injecting our own biases into situations that are not appropriate. For example, offering cold cloths to a patient versus tylenol stating it will work as well is illfounded. I'm sorry, but if I have a multisystem ill patient who suddenly spikes a temp i'm not going to first lay them out in cold cloths, bed bathe them etc only to discover, OMG its not getting better!!! A more educated response would be to assess the fever along with other signs and symptoms of infection, have the urine and blood cultures drawn, then give tylenol, administer antibiotic treatment and monitor them like a hawk because they are now rolling down the slipperly slope of sepsis/septic shock/death. The tylenol does nothing to change this other than to make the patient more comfortable.
  5. by   rita359
    My sons are now nearing 30 but I had their recommended vaccines when they were children. That did not include many of the things children are now vaccinated for. I think, however, that one needs to be cautious about some of the things children are now being vaccinated for. For instance, this new one for girls to prevent cervical? cancer. We have no real experience with this vaccine. I would not have one of my children be in the first groups to be vaccinated for it. Its just like being the first to have a new form of surgery(let a surgeon get experience under his belt first before experimenting on me). Caution is good. Do vaccines cause autism? I don't know but the rise in autism does seem to coincide with the increasing number of vaccines given to children at very young ages. Maybe their immune systems cannot handle so much. For all the doctors think they know about the immune system, there is still so much we don't know about how our bodies work it will probably still fill volumes. We didn't have antibiotics until about 60 years ago. In the millions of years of human history thats yesterday. Look how many antibiotics we give now. And we do know how little we know about how the brain works. I think CAUTION should be used. A poster stated that chicken pox vaccine was given to also ward off shingles as a reason for the vaccine. I remember the first year of the flu vaccines and more people coming down with Gilliam-Barre syndrome. I've seen that in my own experience and you can bet Gilliam-Barre is a lot more terrible than the flu. Caution!!
  6. by   GardenDove
    I think you're wrong about that. In micro we learned that bacteria are more effectively destroyed my the antibodies with a temp greater than 100 degrees. We learned in nursing school that bringing down a temp wasn't neccessary, as long as it wasn't too high, because it had benificial effects.

    It's part of the natural immune response for a specific reason. The body wouldn't evolve this mechanism, which can also be draining, uncomfortable, and contribute to dehydration, without a good reason.
  7. by   hollyvk
    Quote from nptobee
    I have an 11 y/o daughter. I am against this new vaccine for some strains of Human Papilloma Virus. I think I heard that Texas is requiring it now for girls aged 9-13(?). That's makes me angry. My daughter will not be getting that vaccine.

    If cervical cancer comes from HPV, then it is quite preventable. I don't like the idea of assuming that everyone will be having unprotected, early sex.
    These are the attitudes that makes implementing public health policies so difficult:

    1) My individual rights supercede those of my community.

    2) I always know what's best for my loved one.

    3) My child won't get infected.

    To nptobee: You certainly have the right to decline any vaccination for your child, but I hope you do it on an educated basis and not a knee-jerk reaction.

    The failed logic of your statement, "If cervical cancer comes from HPV, then it is quite preventable" just floors me after you have just ranted about no way will your child be getting this vaccination. There are only THREE ways to prevent viral infections: 1) have no contact with the virus, 2) develop immunity to the virus without acquiring an active infection (that's what vaccinations do), or 3) make all possible host persons immune to the virus so that it dies out (this is what happened with smallpox, due to world-wide vaccination).

    From a realistic perspective, we know that HPV can cause cervical cancer (not all forms of it, but many). We know that many women clear the virus on their own after being infected, but some do go on to develop cervical CA. We know that HPV is transmitted through sex.

    Ideally your daughter will have only one sexual partner in her life and he will not be infected with HPV, but in this day and age can you guarantee that? And if on the off chance she did get infected along the way, developed cervical CA and had to have an early hysterectomy, could you deal with that?

    HollyVK, RN, BSN, JD

    [MOUSE] Fighting emotion & ignorance, always an uphill battle [/MOUSE]
  8. by   Logan
    Hi,

    I have an inherent problem with forcing free folks to do something....

    ... even if that something is obviously for their benefit.

    I agree with member 'TazziRN'.

    Dogma works both ways - as member 'llg' has kindly and rightly pointed out.

    Thanks,
    Matthew
  9. by   hollyvk
    Quote from DeLana_RN
    I believe in vaccination, both for children (who have no say in the matter) and adults. Because of herd immunity, most kids who didn't get vaccinated (and are presumably home schooled) are pretty safe; however, if too many take this attitude, there will be no more herd immunity. Why should everyone else have to take the low, but real, risk of serious vaccine side effects?

    As for adults, I always avoided the flu shot. Then I started thinking - yes, I never get the flu and very rarely a cold. But what about my patients - and now, as well, my 2-year-old twins? Do I have the right to put them at risk? No, and therefore I got the shot.

    DeLana
    My opinion is that if you choose for yourself not to be vaccinated for XYZ, that's fine, but if you then get infected and spread the infection to others, you've acted irresponsibly. So kudos to you, DeLana, on getting your flu shot to keep your patients and your little ones safe.

    I have personal knowledge of both life-altering damage from getting a mumps infection as an adult (a male friend who is now both completely deaf and sterile as a result) and the disabling down side of immunization side effects (a former pt who got a swine flu vaccine, developed Guillain Barre' that then became chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy--leaving him as a functional quad).

    I think that if you're going to choose to opt out of vaccinations for yourself or your children, you should spend some time keeping current on what's happening with your local infection rates (go to your state's public health dept's website) and with changes in national vaccination recommendations (go to the mmwr site http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/). You can also track reported national and international outbreaks of preventable diseases at that site (use the search term "outbreak" on the mmwr site) to see what's occurring with mumps, pertussis, hepatitis, varicella, polio, etc.

    HollyVK, RN, BSN, JD

    [S] Knowledge IS power! [/S]
  10. by   hollyvk
    Quote from Logan
    Hi,

    I have an inherent problem with forcing free folks to do something....

    ... even if that something is obviously for their benefit.

    Thanks,
    Matthew
    Few of you here are old enough to remember the HEATED debates about putting fluoride in the public water supplies in the late 1950's. Oh my goodness, it was a communist plot to poison us!

    As a child in the 1950's living in rural areas with well water, I wasn't exposed to fluorinated water supplies until I was a teenage and my dental health (numerous caries) reflects that lack of early fluoride exposure. (Can you say, multiple expensive dental crowns?)

    So Matthew, to you I say make all the ill-considered personal choices you want, just don't make me pay for them. If you want to ride a motorcycle with out a helmet or drive a car without wearing your seatbelt, fine, but you darn well better be carrying enough insurance coverage for your acute care, rehab, and disability needs.

    HollyVK RN, BSN, JD

    [S] Your personal freedom should not come at your community's expense [/S]
  11. by   JaneyW
    Maybe, as healthcare providers, we should all be a little more aware of physiology and not let our personal opinions color the care that we give. A person cannot be 'immune' to an antibiotic. Guillain Barre can be a horrific consequence of a vaccine, but shingles is a product of the virus varicella. I agree with not giving fever reducers to a person with a common cold and a temp of 100-101, but a pt with pylenephritis who is hospitalized and has a fever that is trending up needs to get that temp controlled pronto by whatever means possible and monitored closely for that slippery sepsis slope as described before. I understand that raising the temp of the body is part of the immune response as that particular pathogen is happier and grows faster at 98.6, but a very virulent and dangerous pathogen won't be taken care of so easily. If that were the case, infectious disease would not have been such a threat to existence in the days before antibiotics and vaccines.

    A little history note: There is some compelling scientific evidence that vaccinations may have helped us win in the Revolutionary War. George Washington had troops vaccinated with cow pox vaccine even though it was controversial at the time. The Hessians and a lot of the British troops were wiped out by pox and other diseases that the American troops had immunity to via the vaccination (and being natural citizens of the continent as well, of course!).
  12. by   Logan
    Hi,

    Quote from hollyvk
    So Matthew, to you I say make all the ill-considered personal choices you want, just don't make me pay for them. If you want to ride a motorcycle with out a helmet or drive a car without wearing your seatbelt, fine, but you darn well better be carrying enough insurance coverage for your acute care, rehab, and disability needs.
    I don't disagree with this at all - infact, I advocate for this at my local city council. I write articles in the local paper.

    The price of liberty and freedom is taking responsibility for it.

    I have always been, and continue to remain - a steadfast advocate of and for personal responsibility.... (a trait I see slowly receding in our welfare state - but that's a whole different ball of wax).


    My advocacy for individual rights is just that - individual rights. Every individual is free to chose what they should or should not put into their bodies.

    You are free to vaccinate yourself and I am just as free to refuse the vaccination.

    You are free to try and convince me of the benefits of vaccination - for myself, my family, my kids etc.
    I am also free to refuse it, despite your persuasion.
    This is what is meant by a "free society".

    It also means that if I suffer from the poor choices I made in my life, I shouldn't expect "forced charity" from you, my parents, my neighbours or anyone else!

    What I will not accept, nor stand for - is forcing free individuals to accept a course of action... no matter how "beneficial" it may be.

    As a wise man once said: "The fruit of immoral actions can never be moral".


    Thanks,
    Matthew
    Last edit by Logan on Feb 17, '07
  13. by   Jo Dirt
    Quote from hollyvk
    My opinion is that if you choose for yourself not to be vaccinated for XYZ, that's fine, but if you then get infected and spread the infection to others, you've acted irresponsibly. So kudos to you, DeLana, on getting your flu shot to keep your patients and your little ones safe.

    I have personal knowledge of both life-altering damage from getting a mumps infection as an adult (a male friend who is now both completely deaf and sterile as a result) and the disabling down side of immunization side effects (a former pt who got a swine flu vaccine, developed Guillain Barre' that then became chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy--leaving him as a functional quad).

    I think that if you're going to choose to opt out of vaccinations for yourself or your children, you should spend some time keeping current on what's happening with your local infection rates (go to your state's public health dept's website) and with changes in national vaccination recommendations (go to the mmwr site http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/). You can also track reported national and international outbreaks of preventable diseases at that site (use the search term "outbreak" on the mmwr site) to see what's occurring with mumps, pertussis, hepatitis, varicella, polio, etc.

    HollyVK, RN, BSN, JD

    [s] Knowledge IS power! [/s]
    My nephew had the vaccine for mumps (had all his vaccines and on time) and he still came down with a nasty case of it.

    And for us people who are too uneducated and irresponsible to vaccinate themselves for community health's sake, well, if your vaccinations do what they are supposed to do you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

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