Nurses children and vaccinations, how do you feel?

[Mistify]

I am on another forum that is very anti-vaccinations for children (or anyone for that matter), and it got me thinking how do nurses and other healthcare workers feel about vaccinations and anti-vaxer's. Most of the posters on that forum are very hostile to anyone in healthcare and no matter what a healthcare worker posts it is always wrong or they are spying for "The Man". They tend to see healthcare workers as uninformed, uneducated, and uncaring. How do you feel about vaccinations for yourself or children? Do you ever have people that are very anti-vaccination and what reasons do they give? And do you think that most people that decline vaccination are informed about or understand the effects of the route they are taking? I am not trying to judge, I am just very curious.

[Agnus]

To me, it doesn't take an MD to put two and two together.

I am not saying this is definately not related to the vaccine. However, blaming the vaccine is like blaming anything that occurred around the time of this event. You might blame it on any number of innocent things. It is bordering on superstition like the baby has a stork bite because the mother ate tomatoes when she was pregnant. The "proof" that this is correct is her friend had a baby with a stork bite and she ate tomatoes when she was preg. and "every woman I asked who had a baby with a stork bite ate tomatoes when they were preg.

You might consider this research but most people including nurses have no idea what good research looks like let along how to do it.

[BeachBayNurse]

When I hear a patient or friend tell me that they did not not vaccinate their children, I groan silently, I know that the rationale they will not spare me from will be ill concieved. Of course junior is fine without, it isn't because the vaccination was unnecessary, it is because the children who are around junior all day had parents with enough sense to get their children vaccinated so junior won't be exposed! But, if for some reason the unvaccinated child catches some horrible bug, he will feel free to pass it around to children that couldn't be vaccinated for health reasons.

[rph3664]

Actually you can make a pretty good guess. Worldwide sampling and epidemiologic trending allow us to make a reasonably educated guess on the dominant strain in any given season. Occassionally it is not accurate; most of the time it is. And regardless, there is some cross-immunity conferred by the vaccine against other strains.

Ah, that damn Lancet article rears its ugly head again.

By way of background for anyone who isn't familiar with this subject: In 1998, the Lancet published a study that purported to show a statistical association between the MMR vaccine and autism. Since then there have been multiple studies and a re-examination of the original data. Not only has the new data showed that the there is zero association, but 10 of the 13 authors of the original Lancet article retracted their conclusion.

Every major medical organization dealing with vaccines in the U.S. has issued consensus statements that MMR has no connection with autism. Zero. There is no risk.

Is this about that story where 12 autistic children had a large amount of measles virus in their intestines - with NO controls, etc.? It never fails to amaze me how some people consider that story to be the 67th book of the Bible.

[AlternaNurse]

I am an RN and have always believed in vaccines...becoming a mom and being on the other side has COMPLTELY changed me and how I see things.

Before my son was to receive his first shots I did my research, what shots was he to get, How many? What for? etc etc. I am educated and not "ill informed" as someone mentioned up there.

I opted not to vaccinate my newborn. There are WAY too many people/parents saying the same thing, their children were vaccine injured. Too many for me to feel comfortable giving my son THIRTY SIX shots by the time he is 1. Shots for chicken pox, or Hep B or the flu. Seriously, my son will not be using needles or having sex at 6mth old, its a money maker. As someone mentioned the chicken pox vaccine is not effective forever, and its when we are adults that chicken pox poses the biggest risk. And the flu vaccine, dont even get me started, how many times have I seen people get the flu who have had the vacc...too many strings of the flu virus to nail it down to one vaccine.

I believe there are some very beneficial vaccines, and when a parent feels the time is right they can be given. But my son being only 8lbs, and I am to give him the same shot a 300lb man would get...something is wrong. The govnt is ignoring it, babies are paying for it with their health.

It's sad. And to hear someone say up there that people who Do not vaccinate are all Illinformed or un educated is ludacris. As I bet all those parents who made the decision put hours and hours of research and thought into it, and just because we didnt do what the govnt says like little puppets doesnt mean we are illinformed.

[AlternaNurse]

Neither did I :) It's nice to find other heretics out there.

Seriously though, sometimes I DO feel like a hypocrite when I vaccinate babies at work, or give the flu shot (which I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of, but that's another story) or give Tylenol for a temp of 101...and then go home and tell my friends not to worry unless their fever is over 104 and not to take anything to bring it down because it's the body's way of fighting off infection.

I also am having a very hard time with this aspect of being a nurse with a more alternative mindset. I am currently on mat leave, but will be returning to a cardiac unit...and I am not 100% sure I can go back to that line of work.

[GooeyRN, ADN, BSN, CNA, LPN, RN]

I am an RN and have always believed in vaccines...becoming a mom and being on the other side has COMPLTELY changed me and how I see things.

Before my son was to receive his first shots I did my research, what shots was he to get, How many? What for? etc etc. I am educated and not "ill informed" as someone mentioned up there.

I opted not to vaccinate my newborn. There are WAY too many people/parents saying the same thing, their children were vaccine injured. Too many for me to feel comfortable giving my son THIRTY SIX shots by the time he is 1. Shots for chicken pox, or Hep B or the flu. Seriously, my son will not be using needles or having sex at 6mth old, its a money maker. As someone mentioned the chicken pox vaccine is not effective forever, and its when we are adults that chicken pox poses the biggest risk. And the flu vaccine, dont even get me started, how many times have I seen people get the flu who have had the vacc...too many strings of the flu virus to nail it down to one vaccine.

I believe there are some very beneficial vaccines, and when a parent feels the time is right they can be given. But my son being only 8lbs, and I am to give him the same shot a 300lb man would get...something is wrong. The govnt is ignoring it, babies are paying for it with their health.

It's sad. And to hear someone say up there that people who Do not vaccinate are all Illinformed or un educated is ludacris. As I bet all those parents who made the decision put hours and hours of research and thought into it, and just because we didnt do what the govnt says like little puppets doesnt mean we are illinformed.

ITA! We selectively/delay vaxes. I spent a LOT of time researching each vax.

I also have a hard time with the using "an atom bomb to kill a fly" mindset of medicine. What helps me, is I tell myself the patients are adults, and I assume they/their loved ones researched their treatment options, and they are doing what they/their loved ones feel best about. I have a very difficult time though when a 99 year old confused lady gets dropped off on early Christmas eve and the family demands a full work up/every test possible with admission.

[crunchymomx3]

I didn't make it through all the replies on here but I will say I am just fine with people who don't vax. My kids were all vaxed on time but if I could do it over I would delay without a doubt and skip some vaxes like varicella.

To whoever said something about the pharm companiesnot making money from vaxes; you need to do some more research. Vaxes generate billions in revenue each year. If it didn't, pharm companies wouldn't spend all the money they do to court our government into making vaxes mandatory without question. :)

[queenjean]

I agree with not giving fever reducers to a person with a common cold and a temp of 100-101, but a pt with pylenephritis who is hospitalized and has a fever that is trending up needs to get that temp controlled pronto by whatever means possible and monitored closely for that slippery sepsis slope as described before. I understand that raising the temp of the body is part of the immune response as that particular pathogen is happier and grows faster at 98.6, but a very virulent and dangerous pathogen won't be taken care of so easily.

Seriously, people, do you think there is a nurse on this forum that doesn't know that a fever in a hospitalized pt needs to be further evaluated? That maybe sepsis is an issue? Come on, give her a break. The above is maybe the 3rd post like this. Incredible that her response even needs to be clarified.

In a kid at home with a fever, I don't give any antipyretic unless my kid is uncomfortable; micro, further reading, and discussions with docs make me extremely comfortable with this. Yes, it IS part of the immune response, and there are many bacteria which do NOT proliferate and function as well at a high temperature. That is simply a fact.

In a hospitalized pt, I medicate for comfort as well. When I worked peds, our docs were pretty adamant about NOT medicating for a temp below 103; they wouldn't even want us to call it a temp. In my adult medical pts, of course it is different since not everyone can mount a good febrile response. If my adult medical pt develops a temp, I am not going to automatically medicate. I might call the doc, I might ask for blood cultures, I might review with the pharmacist and doc the VS, most recent blood work and the abx therapy the pt is currently on, but I am not going to give tylenol unless their temp hits 103 or higher, just for the temp. If they are uncomfortable, certainly I will give it sooner.

I am sure that every nurse on here KNOWS to look further, that a fever isn't going to take care of the problem all the time, particularly in a hospitalized pt. For the love of dog, people, have some faith in the members of your profession!

[queenjean]

Another nurse here who delayed/selectively vaccinated her children. I, too, did a lot of research, checked my local and state infectious disease levels, compared that with the possibility of reactions, and made my decisions in that manner. Chicken pox we got from a friend....Pertussis my children and husband developed despite being current with their immunizations (my youngest had actually gotten the last immunization not even a year prior to becoming infected).

I breastfed them each for a couple of years, conferring some immunity. There were certain diseases that were simply not present in our community, so those respective immunizations I felt were okay to delay. Others, for example the tetorifice and the frickin pertussis (which obviously didn't help as much as I might have hoped) we felt were important because a) we have a garden onto which we occasionally apply mixed manure and b) pertussis was in the community and both the kids have asthma, one quite severe. The kiddos didn't go to day care or any organized babysitting for several years; one of us stayed at home with them most of the time, and they stayed with a close friend in her home the scattered times that our schedules overlapped; I felt there were certain diseases more likely contracted in a community setting like day care, and felt comfortable refusing or delaying some of those vaccines.

For the vaccines I did get, I didn't not have them get four injections at once. We did one injection at a time, one series at a time. If there is a reaction, I want to know what they are reacting to. I also don't want to overload their system, and I think four injections, some containing multiple vaccines is simply too much, too soon. Of course, this meant that sometimes my kids were going to the health department once a month for a shot, which was also fun let me tell you.

The main deal with the delayed/selective/no vaccinating thing is the ability and desire to take personal responsibility. Most of the people who don't vaccinate or are selective who *I* know don't hold someone else responsible if their kids get a disease. I am willing and able to take personal responsibility for the decisions I made for my children.

I believe we can balance the need for public health and the need for individuals to maintain autonomy in parenting and health care decisions. I do get my flu vaccine every year, even though I have never gotten the flu before I started the immunizations, and I do that to protect my pts and my family. But that is my choice. I don't have a problem with people who uebervaccinate their kids, nor with those who don't at all. If they can't take responsibility for any adverse results of that, well, they've probably got lots more problems than just a bad case of the measles or a fever from a vaccine reaction, and I can't fix that. I still support their right to make the decisions for their family, even if I think they are the wrong decisions.

[rph3664]

Queenjean, you did what was right for your family.

I have mentioned this elsewhere on this board, and maybe even in this thread, but a huge percentage of the parents who have their babies at my hospital refuse the newborn Hep B dose. It seems that OB cleans out their refrigerator at night, and our overnight pharmacists have to throw out a LOT of this because we don't know if we could reissue them. Before it was part of our newborn standing orders, it was only given if the parents asked for it (I never saw this), if the mother was Hep B positive or had no prenatal care, or if the baby was being placed for adoption. Any of the above were less than 1% of the births here.

Parents deliberately exposing their kids to chicken pox was a rite of passage of my childhood that my parents would not engage in because they knew a family who did this, and their child got varicella encephalitis and was left severely retarded. Who knows, this might have happened anyway, but they weren't taking any chances and let us contract it randomly.

I have heard that the chicken pox vaccine was initiated because of an increased number of immune compromised children (AIDS, steroid therapy, organ transplants, etc.) and some people started really pushing for it because of the increased number of single parents and working couples, and employers were really annoyed about people taking a week off from work every time they had a child with chicken pox. Makes sense to me.

My brother's pediatrician did not give it routinely to healthy children until the state where they live required CP immunity for school attendance, and then only before the children started school.