NP bridge programs, regarding ADVANCE article... - page 2
Hello everyone. This is my first time here and the only reason why I am here is that I read an article in ADVANCE for NPs that kind of angered me. It mentioned that there were forums (like this) where NPs disagree with non-RN... Read More
- 0By the way, Chris... I failed to ask, do you have A.N.C.C. accreditation as an F.N.P.? If not, are you accredited by an accrediting body, if so, which one?
I ask because I was under the impression that the type of program was all but extinct [I admit, I do not know it all, either]. I am very interested to know.
- 0Do you really think so fergus51? I don't. Sometimes I get down-right terse. It is human nature to attack someone when they attack you first. It is [rumored to be] an act of intellect that prevents us from acting the same way in retaliation. BUT, sometimes [I blame my relative youth, for it]-- I LOVE to try to get the last word.
In retrospect it grieves me when I see I have lost control, and allowed another to make me act in a way that is disrespectful. There is another poster on this site who I admire a great deal, I think his i.d. is 'Charles Smith RN,MS' [or pretty darn close]. He just totally ignores some of the blatant ignorant comments and always speaks very eloquently with much though and diplomacy.
I am like that in 'real life' but in this 'virtual' experience, I think it is sometimes easy to let lash out at each other as we are [as one person once said] only 'ghosts in a machine' to each other.
At any rate, thank you for your post, fergus51.
- 0I must say, this has been a very interesting post. No fights or knock down drag out battles. It would be great if the rest of the site were this benign.
The really sad thing is that healthcare is in a sorry shape. My friends grandmother who is 78, had recently undergone a fall and sustained a broken hip [or more accurately, the hip broke, then she fell]. At any rate, when it was time to take her for a follow up appointment, with her MD, I was asked to go.
I went in the exam room [she tells people I am her grandson], with her. I figured we would see what the MD would do. The doctor would have been OUT of the room in less than 3 minutes [I am strange, I did time it], until I began asking 'questions' about her health and the possibility that she may have osteoporosis. I let him know that I was an NP, and that I wanted a DEXA scan for my 'grandmother'. The 3 minute visit that would have ended with an eyball at the incision and a look at comparison x-ray, turned into a comprehensive 20 minute discussion about how 'we' would treat her if she did have osteoporosis.
As it turned out- her bones were so demineralized that a good sneeze would have cracked the femur! A little Ca+, calciferol, and alendronate and she's doing great!
My concern isn't for my family & friends [I'll go with anyone to the doctor], but rather, for those people who don't have an LPN, RN,[ADN, DIPLOMA, or BSN-- doesn't matter], or PA, or NP to advocate on their behalf. No one to assure that they receive the medical care they need, despite the time restraints of the system.
I hope that the system, someday improves. In the meantime, we need to acknowledge the contributions we all make, and what we have to offer. Regardless of our program or initials, if we have prolonged quality of life, and alleviated suffering, we have all offered something to humanity.
- 0Jul 9, '04 by jobo.84hi chris and audience, i have a basic question. i have been accepted into hopkins nursing programand want to gain some relative comparisons from you and anyone. i am offered both an BSN or MSN option and am not clear on the difference in responsibility and freedom. do you have any thoughts? i understand that an NP can administer meds and the like,but what are the significant differences?
thanx a bunch.
Quote from Chris-FNPHello everyone. This is my first time here and the only reason why I am here is that I read an article in ADVANCE for NPs that kind of angered me. It mentioned that there were forums (like this) where NPs disagree with non-RN to NP programs. Obviously, there must be quite a bit of debate on this issue and I admit I have not searched this whole forum. That said, I have some things to say.
And I don't mean to offend anyone.
First, as you would assume, I did graduate from a non-RN to NP program. I graduated last year and I am currently working full-time in a family practice clinic...and doing quite well I might add. I have MD back-up and take call every 4th week. The Doc and I function quite well together and he trusts me with his patients as well as my own. In fact, there have been a lot of cases in which I have picked up on something that has not been found in the past regarding the patient's health.
I was not an RN before this program. I had a BS in business and then became an EMT for some time. Not being an RN prior to the program does not make me, as someone said in this forum, a "sub-par" NP.
Who gives anyone the right to make such claims? What research do you have to back this statement up? If there is research that I am not aware of then I apologize. However, it seems that these statements are consistently made by "older" NPs that were forced to work 25 years as RNs before having the opportunity to become an NP. You especially see this kind of thinking in the academic world...a world that seems to have some utopian vision of a real world that just does not exist in nursing, period.
Hate me for saying it, but the "real world" NP is not an RN. NPs practice a heck of a lot more medicine than nursing. This is a fact and accept it. Do RN's bill 99214 codes? Do RNs prescribe? The NPs I know consistently see 4 to 5 patients an hour and perform MEDICINE!!! This is just a fact. If your an NP and don't like being forced to practice more medicine than nursing, then change careers because this is where healthcare is heading.
I did work as an RN for a short period of time and the roles are not comparable...period. I'm so tired of hearing, "You have to be an RN for years before you can be a good NP." I'm a good NP and I worked as an RN for less than one year.
I guess the definition of the term "Good NP" is the real issue here. Well, if I can diagnose, manage, and treat patients on a daily basis and do things that better their well-being, than is that not a good NP? I listen. I educate. I learned this in my non-RN to NP program.
Nursing and Medicine are not exact sciences and there are many great NPs that were never RNs for years...and I'm sure bad ones as well. The same can be said for RNs that practiced 25 years as floor nurses before becoming NPs, there are some great ones and some bad ones.
The role of an NP requires a complete understanding of pharmacology and pathophysiology...you can be an RN for 25 years and still fail every pathophysiology test. Floor nursing does not give you magical knowledge of the ascending loop of henle!!!
Let's be a little open-minded here. Bridge programs produce some very good NPs and some bad ones to. The fact that most Bridge programs only take the best and the brightest further makes my point. No, there is no substitute for RN experience, but having the brains and desire to be a good NP can be just as invaluable.
- 0Jul 9, '04 by suzanne4Quote from jyeagerIn order to work as an advanced practice nurse, you must have a MSN.hi chris and audience, i have a basic question. i have been accepted into hopkins nursing programand want to gain some relative comparisons from you and anyone. i am offered both an BSN or MSN option and am not clear on the difference in responsibility and freedom. do you have any thoughts? i understand that an NP can administer meds and the like,but what are the significant differences?
thanx a bunch.
There are a couple of programs that come to mind, one being in California, that doesn't require the MSN, but then you do not get national registry standing with that.
Any nurse can administer medications, advance practice nurses who have prescription authority can also prescribe medications.
Hope that this helps.......................
- 0Jul 9, '04 by traumaRUs AdminAlthough not passionate either way in this discussion, I too wanted to add what a wonderful, adult thread. Thanks to everyone.
I do have a question though. I am currently in an MSN (Management/Leadership) program because in Illinois, we have a very strong AMA which really precludes much autonomy. The only place I would want to practice as a NP would be my level one trauma center and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. So...my question is...how autonomous do you all feel? (BTW my background is military nursing and NP and CNM as well as PAs are very popular there). THanks in advance!
- 0Jul 9, '04 by RN4NICUQuote from Chris-FNPI know this poster has not been here in more than 3 years, but I just had to voice agreement with this statement. Dorothy Orem and good ol' Flo. Nightingale were great...thanks ladies, but I do not use their theories in my practice. I do what needs to be done. If this ascribes to a theory - Great! If not, too bad. I don't have time to sit around and theorize about nursing. I am too busy being a nurse. Most likely an unpopular opinion, but for those that really love the stuff - hats off to ya, and to each their own.
So we may not have a huge grasp of nursing theory, but personally, I dislike nursing theory. People will gasp at that and I don't really care. Nursing theory is out-dated and seldom remembered...let alone used. My buddy is getting his Ph.D. in nursing theory right now and will demonstrate how very few NPs actually use a particular theory. Yes, this will be very controversial when published...but its true of a large percentage of all nurses.
Because of such BS as Advanced Nursing Theory, I am considering pursing advanced practice as a PA rather than an NP. Teach me what I need to know about managing care, not about what someone thinks it should be. Let theory be an elective...I'm sure someone would take it. The professional aspect of the education should be EVIDENCE based rather than theoretical.
Simply put...if I am subjected to one more useless nursing theory class I will quite simply vomit.