need some advice on getting family member medical attention against their will

Shed13911 · Aug 25, 2004

You did not say how old he was. Is he in his right state of mind? Does he understand that he could die from infection from the open wounds on his legs? How tragic that he puts his elderly mother through all of that!! Please let us know if you find a solution to getting him medical care.

amy · Aug 25, 2004

A couple of things;

1) Is e suicidal? If so, calling local hospital MHU unit may assist in obtaining a "pick up order" which means pt to ER whether they want to or not.

2) Adult protective services. Call them, and if your uncle is not capable of caring for himself, and neither is your gram, they may be of assistance.

Just MHO.

GOOD LUCK!!!

TinyNurse, RN · Aug 25, 2004

My dad worked, has his own place yet smoked too much and ate too much............ i encouraged him all of the time to see a doc for a "check up" he refused and refused again against my wishes and my sister's wishes.

He died last month, acute MI, 48 years old. we tried...........you cannot force a person to get medical help.

xo jen

mama · Aug 25, 2004

Most of people in this age are bit reluctant for medical treatment, may be there are depressed. But one way or other we need to help them... not really force them.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Aug 25, 2004

Some people call the local AA if they have concerns about alcoholics in their families.

But unless he is a danger to himself or someone else, you cannot "force" him to seek care, and no one else can, legally, either. Part of his civil rights to be just as sick and miserable as he wants to be.

Now, if your gram said, you get care or you get out AND was willing to stick to it, it might work.

But probably not.

Sounds like he and his alcoholism have had lots of time to get the family organized in such a way to support his drinking and self-neglect.

These things are never isolated. Take yourself to Al-Anon, go to at least six meetings. If they cannot help you, they'll "gladly refund your misery." You can learn how to help your uncle there. Those people have been helping their alcoholic family and friends since the early 1960's. (Really.)

Alcoholism isn't isolated, we just think it is because we think nobody else knows.

ceecel.dee, MSN, RN · Aug 25, 2004

Report him to Family Services/Adult Protection Agency. Tell them the situation and that you think he needs to be filed as a Vulnerable Adult. They will screen him for his ability to determine his way of life.

Energizer Bunny · Aug 25, 2004

I'm wondering here....if he says he just wants to die wouldn't that maybe constitute being suicidal so that OP could get him admitted for psych help?

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Aug 25, 2004

I'm wondering here....if he says he just wants to die wouldn't that maybe constitute being suicidal so that OP could get him admitted for psych help?

Unfortunately, probably not. Now, if he had a plan and means, that would be a different matter.

Kim, your post reminds me of a situation we had with a schizophrenic lady who would not take her meds. She was vaguely dangerous, more scary actually. She never threatened anyone, never hurt anyone, but she was kind of disruptive.

We were able to get her committed for 72 hours (enough to get meds restarted) by asserting that at her stage of illness, her refusal to take care of herself constituted threat to self. The more of these weird episodes she had, the higher the probabiliity that she would not return to her former level of functioning. The judge bought it. He didn't like it, but he did issue the order.

This fellow really isn't hurting anybody in a direct way, not even himself. We are allowed to neglect ourselves right into the grave--it's apparenlty a constitutional right.....

Sad, huh? Best thing for him would be for his whole family to go to Al-Anon. I think you will see that they (the family) are not willing to do that.

It is the paradox of addictive family dynamics. Everyone is affected, no one takes responsibility, everyone wants to help someone else make changes. And the "identified client" who usually has the alcoholism or drug addiction just gets sicker and sicker, until they die and/or kill someone else as a result of their impairment.

And often, still, the family cannot be convinced to take the first step that has worked for so many others.

Does it seem that perhaps I have a personal stake in this? I do. My child has been recently actively suicidal, she's living in another state. She has a drug and alcohol problem. I have "a program" (meaning I do the things I am supposed to do, having family members whose drinking and drugging "bothers" me), I go to Al-Anon, I follow the steps, etc. The rest of the family pretends there is no problem.

Ya know what happened the last time she got suicidal? Gramma took her pills away, which was good, and then the two of them went and had their hair done.

I'm telling you, it is the entire family that is sick, not just the obvious one.

mscsrjhm · Aug 25, 2004

Most of people in this age are bit reluctant for medical treatment, may be there are depressed. But one way or other we need to help them... not really force them.

I have to disagree. That is what is so very great about freedom... we don't need to help them. If they ask for help.. then we help.

Otherwise, what right do we have to force help on anyone? It is their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.. even if it kills them.

For others to decide that a person isn't living their life right, and require help, even though they don't want it, is very presumptious.

I just disagree.

Barryo123 · Aug 25, 2004

Would this person not be considered a danger to himself? Given the situation he's in? If he has no immediate family other than his mother - does he have a will drawn up - more importantly advance directives regarding his health care? If not, then, one suggestion is to go through the probate court in your area and have an order for his medical confinement for treatment made - yes - against his will. It's not at all about freedom - it's about preservation of his life, first, and well-being second. It's drastic and will most likely cause numerous personal issues to arise - but - if he is as ill as you describe and is reluctant to seek help on his own - then - a thorough psych eval as well as immediate treatment is in order. Obviously, it's your call. It's likely to be quite a long process, but, at least you'll have peace of mind in knowing that you at least did not harm...

Just some thoughts.

LydiaGreen · Aug 25, 2004

To be honest, I did not read the whole thread - just the OP's original message and question.

My family has been trying to force an uncle to receive medical treatment for 20+ years. My mother has 12 brothers and sisters. Every single one has tried desperately to help, to force medical treatment, etc. It doesn't work. And yes, he has threatened and even tried suicide. The problem? He KNOWS how to work the system. He KNOWS what answers to give the doctors and psychiatrists. He's never been held for more than 48 hours. We have all given up. Now, we just make sure there is food available for him should he coming looking for it.

My father was perfectly sane, used no drugs, no alcohol. He was severely underweight, vomited blood on a frequent basis, could eat very little from a very short list of food items, and his legs were dark purple from the knees down. We begged him for 10+ years to see a doctor. (He finally did and somehow the MD thought he was just fine, but that's another story). He had a massive CVA on his 56th birthday due to the large emboli that had developed as a result of a heart valve defect. The dark purple, mottled skin was due to the resulting poor peripheral circulation. The CVA was severe enough that he was too ill and too weak for surgery to repair the heart valve. He continued to suffer embolic CVA's despite carefully monitored warfarin and died shortly after his 58th birthday.

You cannot force anyone to seek medical attention if they are cognizant of the potential consequences and demonstrate an understanding of such. It's their right.