need some advice on getting family member medical attention against their will

Nurses General Nursing

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my uncle is a alcoholic for many years now, he has began swelling up face and legs, his legs now have 10 inch diameter open wounds on them 1 1/2 inch deep draining and yellow, he also has a hernia almost to his knees. he lives with my grandma and of course is not employed, won't sign for medicaid or any help, says he wants to die. my problem is i do not want my grandma too find him dead soon. is there any way we can get him medical attention without his consent? he can't keep any solids down, he's started throwing any food up. any info would be greatly appreciated

thanx

I have a young adult child who struggles with ADHD and refuses to seek assistance via counseling or meds. It is severely limiting his potential IMO and he spends a lot of energy being angry, (getting in fights, arguing with authority figures, etc)and failing in social and school settings because he is 'wired' a little differently than most and has difficulty adapting, focusing, socializing and organizing. It is hard as a mother to watch. His doctor doesn't believe in forcing meds and treatment if the kid doesn't want it, so I am stuck. He stubbornly refuses any help tho I encourage him and offer resources.

I wonder sometimes if, for his own good, I should force the issue too via adult protective services, but I fear he will never forgive me or trust me again should I do this. Hard decision and my heart goes out to family members who watch their loved ones self destruct.

I worked for a cardiologist once. I was frustrated one day and asked him "What do we do with people who don't want our help?" he answered, "We try and help them anyway, in some way". I have to agree.

While I don't operate from 'I know best' nor do I think I have all the answers, I feel badly when people's lives could be enriched/improved if they reached out a bit and accepted some help, but they choose not to because of pride, fear, or stoicism.

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my uncle is a alcoholic for many years now, he has began swelling up face and legs, his legs now have 10 inch diameter open wounds on them 1 1/2 inch deep draining and yellow, he also has a hernia almost to his knees.

is there any way we can get him medical attention without his consent? he can't keep any solids down, he's started throwing any food up. any info would be greatly appreciated

thanx

this man does not present a danger to himself???????

would this not be negligence if someone didn't get him help?

we just recently had a thread about an obese woman who laid in her couch for 6 years. many of the posts focused on why no one got this woman help.

is this not comparable?

leslie

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None of the people described present an "imminent danger" to themselves or anyone else.

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None of the people described present an "imminent danger" to themselves or anyone else.

sorry chris, i have to disagree.

10 inch draining wounds, new onset of edema and vomiting up food, sounds urgent compounded with statements of wanting to die; plus being a chronic alcoholic, we don't know how well his brain is functioning.

that sounds as if he's a danger to himself.

and i cannot believe anyone could watch this w/o any intervention.

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that sounds as if he's a danger to himself.

and i cannot believe anyone could watch this w/o any intervention.

I don't know if this applies everywhere or not - but here, as long as the person is cognizant of the complications and consequences that could result from their choice to refuse treatment, they are deemed competent and we cannot force treatment upon them.

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I don't know if this applies everywhere or not - but here, as long as the person is cognizant of the complications and consequences that could result from their choice to refuse treatment, they are deemed competent and we cannot force treatment upon them.

but that's just it, lydia.

this gentleman has not been to an md, therefore has not been dx'd and informed of any complications and consequences of refusing tx.

after the md examines him and informs him of such, then he has the right to refuse tx.

leslie

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I don't like that he is not seeking treatment either, but that is his choice to make.

However, wouldn't this be situation be tantamount to elder abuse? He is imposing this drinking and obvious lack of personal hygiene/self-care on his elderly mother. And who knows (due to his chronic alcohol abuse problem) how he is interacting with her as well, for example forcing her to sign over her social security/pension checks, being threatening or violent? I would suspect at the very least a social worker could be called in to interview and assess this situation on behalf of the mother.

Just a thought.

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but that's just it, lydia.

this gentleman has not been to an md, therefore has not been dx'd and informed of any complications and consequences of refusing tx.

after the md examines him and informs him of such, then he has the right to refuse tx.

leslie

Sorry Leslie, but he is making an informed decision. I know how difficult this is because I have been through it with my uncle and my father. This man is aware that not seeing a doctor may mean that he will die. He has made statements that this is what he wants. And, unfortunately, this is his choice. Have you tried social services? Crisis counselling? These are only suggestions - even if they arrive on the doorstep, he does have the right to refuse to see them. Perhaps you could force a 48 hour eval (what we call a Form 1, but we require 2 MD's to sign for this). You could call the police - if they feel that he is a threat to himself or others, they can forcibly take him to the ER where you may be lucky enough for him to receive the 48 hour evaluation. But, after the 48 hour evaluation, the only way the hospital can hang onto, and force treatment upon him, is if he is declared incompetent. This is a lengthy legal process and demeaning to the person going through it. You can try all of this, but be prepared for him to possibly be very angry about it. And even if you are able to get to the competency hearing, it is very difficult to have someone declared incompetent. All he has to do is state that he is aware that refusing treatment will result in death. If he understands this and is able to state such, he is competent and can do as he wishes. I am sorry. I hope for your sake that I am wrong, but this is how it works here - I have no idea what legal hoops you will have to jump through there.

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Thanks, Lydia. Very well said.

"this gentleman has not been to an md, therefore has not been dx'd and informed of any complications and consequences of refusing tx."

But, doesn't he have the right to refuse to see an MD? Isn't that what our freedoms are about? the "down" side of freedom, admittedly, but still... his right.

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Sorry Leslie, but he is making an informed decision.

why would his decision be considered informed?

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why would his decision be considered informed?

By that thinking...only if we get instruction from a mechanic can we let our oil get low.

Okay, stretching it.

We cannot force sane people to make the right decisions.

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and furthermore, who is deeming him competent?

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