NA's not professionals - page 8

I was the recipient of a complaint yesterday from another employee. An NA told me she had been called off before her shift and told on the phone that instead of having her work, the floor would run... Read More

  1. by   Athenas83
    Quote from TiredMD
    I know you think that, that's my point. Most docs think they could do the job of an RN without any particular difficulty. Whether it's factually true or not is irrelavent. This whole notion of "I can do your job and mine, no problem" is nothing more than a weapon used to denigrate your coworkers.
    I don't agree with your colleagues. In your first semester of medical school you did not learn how to be a nurse. We are taught how to be nursing assistants our first semester of nursing school. So comparing the two are like trying to compare fact and fiction.

    Quite literally an RN can do a nurse assistant's job. It might offend some, but it's true.

    What you say is true about the whole I can do your job, no problem thing is true. My personal belief is that everyone is a professional no matter what line of work they decide to do.
    Last edit by Athenas83 on Nov 17, '07 : Reason: tired and leaving out words!!
  2. by   cardiacRN2006
    I don't have techs or NAs where I work, so I do that job everyday.

    Nursing could seriously go without CNAs. We would just need to lower our ratios. But nursing can't exist without nurses...
  3. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Athenas83

    In this case though quite literally an RN can do a nurse assistant's job. It might offend some, but it's true.
    i think that's arrogant and presumptuous.
    yeah, i could do their job.
    but dang, it would take me forever.
    i could never do it as proficiently as they do.
    it is the nsg assts, who have taught me so many tricks of their trade.
    clever, resourceful, time-saving techniques.

    and i agree with tiredmd.
    we, as nurses, become contemptuous when we feel belittled by md's.
    and yet, some on this board, have no problem inflating their own self-worth by downplaying the role of the cna.
    truly, i am sitting here, shaking my head.
    sure, one can call themself a professional.
    but according to what i've been reading, there's nothing professional about some of these attitudes.

    to this day, i am still unsure as to whether nursing is a vocation or profession.
    truthfully, i don't care...
    as long as i can hold my head up and act "professionally".
    and that would encompass being supportive, respectful and conducting oneself with grace.
    i guess it really does boil down to how one perceives professionalism.
    sheesh.

    leslie
  4. by   UM Review RN
    Quote from TiredMD
    All I'm saying is this: It's sad to see nurses, who have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians, then turn around and use the exact same specious arguments to put down CNAs. I guess it really does roll down hill, eh?
    Wrong.

    You are not getting the point. The point is not who works harder, and no one is putting CNAs down. We are stating facts, facts that CNAs and MDs alike should know.

    One reason that nurses "have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians" is that they've allowed doctors to go unchallenged when making untrue statements such as "RNs are not professionals."
  5. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Angie O'Plasty, RN
    Wrong.

    You are not getting the point. The point is not who works harder, and no one is putting CNAs down. We are stating facts, facts that CNAs and MDs alike should know.

    One reason that nurses "have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians" is that they've allowed doctors to go unchallenged when making untrue statements such as "RNs are not professionals."
    but again, angie, how does one define a profession?
    varying definitions make it most ambiguous.
    if diploma/adn nurses can become professionals by virtue of a 2 yr degree, does that make the bsn nurse more professional?
    what distinguishes a profession from a vocation?
    i honestly don't know the answer to this.
    and so, i cannot passionately claim, to be a professional (noun).
    but i can be defined by my professionalism (adjective).

    so, when i read about cna's wanting to be treated like professionals, i don't get the impression they're equating that with academic status:
    rather, a group of workers who want to be recognized for their valuable contributions, just like everyone else.
    and it's these same sort of misconceptions that md's have of us:
    that we nurses are relegated to performing a bunch of tasks...
    and they, the doctors, are the ones who truly have the important work of saving lives.
    you don't see the connection between md-nurse, and nurse-cna??

    leslie
  6. by   Athenas83
    Earle, I was not trying to sound arrogant. I just stated fact. I don't think I'm better than anyone...period. No matter how much education I get, that will never change. I am a Christian and have God's view on things, that everyone is equal. Education and knowledge are tangible things, and aren't what are valuable to me. Someone's heart condition and how they treat others are what matter.
  7. by   flightnurse2b
    Quote from earle58
    i think that's arrogant and presumptuous.
    yeah, i could do their job.
    but dang, it would take me forever.
    i could never do it as proficiently as they do.
    it is the nsg assts, who have taught me so many tricks of their trade.
    clever, resourceful, time-saving techniques.

    and i agree with tiredmd.
    we, as nurses, become contemptuous when we feel belittled by md's.
    and yet, some on this board, have no problem inflating their own self-worth by downplaying the role of the cna.
    truly, i am sitting here, shaking my head.
    sure, one can call themself a professional.
    but according to what i've been reading, there's nothing professional about some of these attitudes.

    to this day, i am still unsure as to whether nursing is a vocation or profession.
    truthfully, i don't care...
    as long as i can hold my head up and act "professionally".
    and that would encompass being supportive, respectful and conducting oneself with grace.
    i guess it really does boil down to how one perceives professionalism.
    sheesh.

    leslie
    i couldnt have said anything better, leslie. thank you.
  8. by   UM Review RN
    Quote from earle58
    but again, angie, how does one define a profession?
    varying definitions make it most ambiguous.
    if diploma/adn nurses can become professionals by virtue of a 2 yr degree, does that make the bsn nurse more professional?
    what distinguishes a profession from a vocation?
    i honestly don't know the answer to this.
    and so, i cannot passionately claim, to be a professional (noun).
    but i can be defined by my professionalism (adjective).

    so, when i read about cna's wanting to be treated like professionals, i don't get the impression they're equating that with academic status:
    rather, a group of workers who want to be recognized for their valuable contributions, just like everyone else.
    and it's these same sort of misconceptions that md's have of us:
    that we nurses are relegated to performing a bunch of tasks...
    and they, the doctors, are the ones who truly have the important work of saving lives.
    you don't see the connection between md-nurse, and nurse-cna??

    leslie
    If we go back to the original post, the CNA in question was "offended" when she was told that she didn't have to work and that "professionals" would staff the CNA positions.

    Her feelings were hurt because she interpreted "professional" as opposed to the CNA (or "not-professional," if you will) to mean that she was "UN-professional."

    Certainly, that would hurt anyone's feelings.

    However, and I cannot stress this more, this CNA overreacted and misunderstood the term "professional" to reflect on her work habits, not on her job definition.

    RNs are recognized as professionals. Period. It is the definition of the Registered Nurse.

    You can personally argue that an RN is a not professional, but in my state, according to Florida's BON Nurse Practice Act, you would be incorrect:

    (4) "Registered nurse" means any person licensed in this state to practice professional nursing.
    (5) "Licensed practical nurse" means any person licensed in this state to practice practical nursing.
    (6) "Advanced registered nurse practitioner" means any person licensed in this state to practice professional nursing and certified in advanced or specialized nursing practice.
    ...
    (3) "Certified nursing assistant" means a person who meets the qualifications specified in this part and who is certified by the board as a certified nursing assistant.

  9. by   UM Review RN
    P.S. I've worked on units that did not use CNAs and I've been a CNA myself, so please don't think I'm "elitist" or "putting the CNAs down." I've worked with and trained many excellent CNAs. But as a CNA, I was no slouch either, Les.

    Would I prefer to work with a CNA? Well, it depends on two things -- the unit and the CNA.
  10. by   ERRNTraveler
    For people to say that I as an RN can't do a CNA's job is absolutely ridiculous! Um... I used to be a CNA before I was an RN, so, I KNOW that I can do a CNA's job, because I have before. That is not to say that having CNA's or techs around doesn't make my job easier- it frees me up to take care of the "RN" stuff, but can I function without a CNA? Of course. Could I do the job of a CNA? You bet- I have before. Could a CNA do the job of an RN? Absolutely not.....
  11. by   smk1
    Quote from TiredMD
    I know you think that, that's my point. Most docs think they could do the job of an RN without any particular difficulty. Whether it's factually true or not is irrelavent. This whole notion of "I can do your job and mine, no problem" is nothing more than a weapon used to denigrate your coworkers.

    I get it, your job is hard. Great, mine too, that's not the point I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is this: It's sad to see nurses, who have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians, then turn around and use the exact same specious arguments to put down CNAs. I guess it really does roll down hill, eh?
    A physician has a COMPLETELY different job than a nurse. The tasks are almost completely different. A CNA is doing some of the tasks of a nurse. Therein lies the difference. A nursing assistant is there to assist the nurse. So logically, it stands to reason that a nurse can and does do the job of a CNA already. A nurse and a doctor are two completely different animals, so a comparison just doesn't fly. Not many here (I don't recall seeing any actually) are crapping on the CNA's. I myself stated more than once that there was no need to offend the CNA's by excluding them from the ranks of those who can be called a professional. Life is too short inmho to spend time on that. However, when comments are made that put down the knowledge and education that nurses have on a nursing board, people might get a bit testy. The truth is the truth. A nurse has already learned the job and performed in the capacity of a CNA, but the reverse is not true so why try to argue about something you really don't know much about?
  12. by   TiredMD
    Quote from SMK1
    However, when comments are made that put down the knowledge and education that nurses have on a nursing board, people might get a bit testy. The truth is the truth. A nurse has already learned the job and performed in the capacity of a CNA, but the reverse is not true so why try to argue about something you really don't know much about?
    I never put down the "knowledge and education that nurses have". I have the utmost respect for nursing, although like any other Resident, I do have my professional disagreements with my coworkers from time to time. In this thread, I have attempted to maintain a professional tone while disagreeing with other posters, and I challenge you to cite one instance where I have put down your future profession on this board.

    And in case you've forgotten my posts, I worked as a CNA for seven years, and still maintain my certification. Even if this weren't the case, I think I might have picked up a little bit about what nurses do, seeing as how I spend more time on the wards than I do at home. Or perhaps I might've learned about it from my wife, who has been an RN for the last decade, whom I met while working as a CNA.

    I'm suprised that, as a student, you would presume to lecture anyone about what they do and do not know about a field you have yet to work in.

    The real moral of this story is to be sensitive about the words that you use. "Professionals", at least in the four different states I have worked in, is not a shorthand way of saying "registered nurse". It is not suprising that this terminology was misunderstood. I likely would have made the same error in interpretation. Even benign words can become hurtful when used in a thoughtless context.
    Last edit by TiredMD on Nov 17, '07
  13. by   time4meRN
    I think the NA needs to get over it. In my opinion , RN's do meet most of the criteria for proff. We have are controlled by BON's, we may get reimbursed if we choose to, we have a code of conduct that we are held to, we are upper middle class, (my salary is 37.50/4.75 hr shift /1.50 charge pay/ plus weekend diff) Not bad I would say. ....so on and so on with the long definition /comparison. NA's are trained many times in a matter of months. They have no Board for regulation. Now as far as the MA's go, that is another thread all together. Don't get us started on that again. Holey, moley. RN's are RN's . I'm sick to death of other medical feild members trying to compair themselves to us . If they want to be an RN and have the wounderful title then ,,,,,,,GO TO SCHOOL !I don't call myself Dr. because I catch their mistakes, make critical decisions etc. Can you imagine if we started saying things like, well, I might as well be called a Dr. I do the same things. All He** would break loose. So , as much as I respect and love many of my NA's, CNA's MA's , any other A's you can think of, I'm sick of political correctness... If they want to have all the wounderful glory of an RN,(ha,ha) sign their name as leagally responsible,be the one the DR looks for when they want to yell, etc... etc... then go to school.
    Last edit by time4meRN on Nov 18, '07

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