Medication Aides - page 3

:confused: I am asking this question of you because I have looked for days for my answer and am still empty handed. I need to know where I might find information on medication aides and their... Read More

  1. by   mattsmom81
    I would bet that monitoring the patient for drug incompatibilities and side effects will fall on the nurse as this is within our scope of practice.

    Nurses who work with med aides must be alert to the patients' condition and regularly review the MAR, and screen for problems, as I'd bet most states will hold the RN responsible for these things.
  2. by   Rustyhammer
    Wouldn't it be difficult to monitor when you aren't the one passing the meds?
    I mean, If you are not giving the dig. are you still responsible for checking the pulse first?
    -Russell
  3. by   adrienurse
    How can you even be sure if the patients are getting the right pills? You're not watching over the aide's shoulder.
  4. by   nurseratchett29
    Interesting thread. I have some definate opinions. I, too, am from Mass. and work in a primary care practice. The medical assistants (most of whom are CNA's or PCA's) are legally allowed to give injections here after just being signed off by the nurse manager. They also have the responsibility of calling in prescriptions for the docs. They'll say "Call in Cipro 250mg BID x 5 days" and the MA's just do it. They have absolutely no concept of interventions, contraindications, lab values etc. I think this is very dangerous and have expressed my opinion to be told "The physician is taking responsibility, you don't have to worry" But of course, I worry about my license. And injections!!! A high school drop out with 9 months of general classes at a "health care institute" does not constitute a competant professional. I am very well paid, and sometimes I feel like they are giving these MA;s more responsibility so they can cut my position. I know that in RI when I was a new grad, they had CMT's (certified medication technicians) who did general meds and nebs and that type of thing. We had to give narcs, injections, and Iv's and it did save a lot of time for us. I was fortunate, I had two nursing students as my CMT's because ultimately, I was responsible for every med they gave. Scary, isn't it.
  5. by   mattsmom81
    Beth, this is what i would be afraid of too...I have never done LTC so don't have to worry....but those who DO and have med aides passing their meds are probably responsible and liable at some point.

    Seems to be the same as in the hospital, where PCT's are working under the nurses' licenses doing invasive procedures and the nurse can be held accountable for their screwups. This falls under delegation in my Nurse Practice Act. Kinda scarey, isn't it?
  6. by   adrienurse
    Why don't we teach the housekeeping staff to start IVs? I'm sure they can be taught in a 3 day workshop. Heck we son't need nurses at all they're overpaid and they complain too much. We'll get the care aids to do dressings, take orders from the doctors and we can just hire people off the street to pass out the pills. I mean how hard is it to follow simple instructions? And if something happens, well let's just stand by the legislators, if they feel that this system is okay, it's good enough for us! It's a win-win situation! $$$$$$$$$$$$ I'M KIDDING BY THE WAY!
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I am w/rusty on this. I believe STRONGLY no one but a licensed nurse should pass meds. These aides simply do NOT have all the pharmacology, pathophys, etc to truly understand the implications of what they are "passing"; jeez it is SO MUCH more than just sticking pills in a cup and handing em over!!!!! Yet, I WOULD BE HELD LIABLE for ADR's and other untoward effects? How bout med errors? How can an AIDE be held to this standard when they lack the education and training? And don't tell me a 2 week crash course would meet the standard. I do not buy it.

    Would I want my loved one medicated by an AIDE? NO way! In that same thread, how bout we train SCRUB NURSES to perform surgeries? Hey, why not in the cost-cutting environment we are in. COME ON!!!! This is wrong!

    I am NOT putting down aides, but to me, this is just dangerous practice and should be ILLEGAL! Therefore, ......I disagree w/.t totally. Just Another way for greedy suits and companies to save money in my opinion.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Jul 18, '02
  8. by   Fran-RN
    hello to all, in long term care medication aides have been used for years. Yes, the nurse is responsible for what they do. I'm not sure the public is aware of this, even some of the other CNA s are not aware that the QMAs have the same training they do except for a few hours of training in medications. they are usually trained for PO meds only. The CNA training is basically the same as the first semester in nursing training. Basic patient care. but all of that is crammed into 105 hrs. They also have to pass a written and skills test that is administered by an independent agency. They are trained to do vital signs and what normals are and to report abnormals to the nurse. Then it is the nurse's job to assess the situation and decide what to do. In long term care there is usually 1 nurse to 20-40 pts. so we have to have assistants. they are a valuable assest to the nurse. but as in any other profession there are good ones and bad ones. I don't think Qs should be used in acute care.
  9. by   Yancy SPN
    Quote from night owl
    I've never heard of medication aides. Are you licensed to do this? And do you give out narcotics?
    I am a medication aide in Kansas and yes, I'm licensed to do this and yes, I also give narcotics. I can also draw up insulin syringes but not allowed to do the injections. I geuss it depends on what state your in as to what is legal and what's not.
  10. by   Yancy SPN
    Quote from adrienurse
    I'm not familiar with medication aides, I don't think they're legal where I'm from. I don't see how they can be very safe. Seems like just another quick fix from the higher-ups.
    Depends on what state your in and no, I'm not a "quick fix" to the hire ups either and I take that in offense. I've been a cna for 14 years and a cma for 4 years, and obvioulsy someone trusts me enough to give narcotics. I'm just a peeon for the nurses who dont want to pass meds and just do the charting. CNA's and CMA's are the backbone to nursing here in Kansas and without us, they'd be in a lot of chaos.
  11. by   Yancy SPN
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I am w/rusty on this. I believe STRONGLY no one but a licensed nurse should pass meds. These aides simply do NOT have all the pharmacology, pathophys, etc to truly understand the implications of what they are "passing"; jeez it is SO MUCH more than just sticking pills in a cup and handing em over!!!!! Yet, I WOULD BE HELD LIABLE for ADR's and other untoward effects? How bout med errors? How can an AIDE be held to this standard when they lack the education and training? And don't tell me a 2 week crash course would meet the standard. I do not buy it.

    Would I want my loved one medicated by an AIDE? NO way! In that same thread, how bout we train SCRUB NURSES to perform surgeries? Hey, why not in the cost-cutting environment we are in. COME ON!!!! This is wrong!

    I am NOT putting down aides, but to me, this is just dangerous practice and should be ILLEGAL! Therefore, ......I disagree w/.t totally. Just Another way for greedy suits and companies to save money in my opinion.
    Here in kansas, it takes alot longer than two week to gain the knowledge and experience of passing meds and yes, it is more that just sticking a few pills in a med cup and handing them to someone. As far as med errors goes, med aides aren't the only ones that make them. I've seen nurses make them as well. Were all human and we all make mistakes. If your careful and you do your 5 rights, and pay attention, med errors are hard to make. I strongly disagree that this is wrong.
  12. by   Yancy SPN
    Quote from Flo1216
    Really? CNAS can do foleys and straight caths? I am sorry, but that is just not right. In my hosptial, LPNS aren't allowed to catheterize men or children.Also, often CNAS and medical assistants are mistaken for nurses and what bothers me is that they don't correct the mistake. I also know of some CNAS I work with who don't wear their IDS and wear plain old scrubs and call themselves nurses. I know a CNA who told a pt who was complaining of lower leg pain to massage his calf. When I told her that you shouldn't massage your calf, especially if you have a hx of clots(this pt did) she told me I didn't know what I was talking about and that she never heard of such a thing. I also know CNAS who do trach care and suction vents, etc. They are not allowed but feel it is OK becuase they have worked there a long time. So does that mean if they work in L&D for 20 years as a CNA it isOK if they deliver a baby?Am I wrong to be bothered by these things? I am a CNA and also a student and even though there are a lot of things I KNOW how to do because I am in school, that doesn't give me the right to perform them when I work in the role of a nurse's aid. I am still unlicensed and I don't overstep my bounds.
    I am from Kansas and worked in a hospital where I received my CNA II training. I received a certificate for catheterizations and sterile dressing changes. I also did enemas and I'm also a CMA, and just because I'm not a nurse, does not mean that I dont know what I'm doing or how to do it right. I think sometimes nurses kinda let it go to their heads that just because theyre a nurse, theyre better than me. All you have is higher education. I have been professionaly trained by the best RNs and some of the local Doctors as well. If the Doctors feel like I'm trustworthy to do an invasive procedure such as a cath, then hey, what's wrong with that??? Also, the RNs I worked under, trusted me with their life. Some of them came to me to ask my opinion about a patient. I've been in this field for 14 years and have seen lots of things and I pay close attention to what's going on around me and to what I'm doing. Please, don't knock me just because I'm a CMA. You still get paid more!!!!!!!!!!!
  13. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from Rustyhammer
    You want someone to pass your meds....Hire a nurse!
    -Russell

    I second that.

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