Male Nurses on the rise and they make more money - page 4
Male Nurses Becoming More Commonplace, Census Bureau Reports The nursing profession remains overwhelmingly female, but the representation of men has increased as the demand for nurses has grown... Read More
Feb 27, '13 by woohI worked with my ex-husband. We started same day. Same general experience beforehand. Did the same job. He made 75 cents per hour more than I did. Back when I was young and stupid and happy to have a job, I didn't say anything.
Worked for a while with my current husband. (Where we met.) I had more responsibility. Worked there longer. More experience before that job. But he talked football with the boss and made more than a dollar per hour more than I did. At the same time he was getting a raise and another guy that did basically the same job I did was getting a raise (when he already made more than me), they didn't have money to give me a raise. (And they were shocked when I quit not long after that!)
And let's be clear. I've NEVER taken maternity leave. I've NEVER had childcare responsibilities. So there was no, "But women care more about their kids than their career" excuses here. (Which is BS anyway.)
Of course every man HERE has only received the pay and promotions he rightfully deserved. I wouldn't want anyone here to think that maybe, just maybe, they might have profited from sexism. Just like a promotion that I got when I was one of the few white people there not already in management (who was ALL white) was SOLELY because of how hard I work and how much experience I had. No way that I profited from latent racism there. I just worked really hard!
We all want to think that we get where we get based solely on our merits. But to claim there's no problem when women still only make 77 cents for every dollar a man makes? We can come up with all the excuses we want, claim "it's just faulty statistics," but there's STILL a problem. Not shocking that men don't see it. It is sad that women don't see it.
Feb 28, '13 by woohAs for why don't women negotiate? Because we have to do a song and dance when we do it, unlike men:
In one study, from Professor Babcock at Carnegie Mellon, men and women asked for raises using identical scripts. People liked the men's style. But the women were branded as aggressive-unless they gave a smile while they asked, or appeared warm and friendly. In other words, they conformed to feminine stereotypes.
"The data shows that men are able to negotiate for themselves without facing any negative consequences, but when women negotiate, people often like them less and want to work with them less," says Sheryl Sandberg, Facebook's chief operating officer, whose forthcoming book "Lean In" is about women and leadership. "Even if women haven't studied this or seen this data, they often implicitly understand this, so they hold back."
Feb 28, '13 by hiddencatRNDo we know for sure that the study didn't adjust for location, overtime worked, maternity leaves, tenure, career level? It doesn't seem like it would be hard to factor in obvious variables that so many folks here have pointed out.
Feb 28, '13 by reznurseI am so happy to hear more men are going into nursing. One thing I would like to learn more about is the number of males going into nursing education. I loved my one male nursing instructor and I wish there were more out there.
Mar 4, '13 by BCRNAThe "studies" don't take into account that more women are likely to work part time( or less ). They also don't take into account that women are more likely to take a lot of time off to take care of kids. There isn't much of a difference if you take those variables into account. Though I will admit there are alot of sexist attitudes that work against women. Many managers I know will hire men over women because they are more likely to be career oriented, are easier to get along with ( the managers opinion), won't take time off for childbirth, and are much more likely to work overtime. I am not saying that any of that is true, it is just the perception. My personal experience has been that there is a lot of "cat fights" when working in small units. Not all, but enough women make tense work environments due to personal drama that it is easier for managers to prefer men. If a workplace could truly prove gender affects salary they would have a winnable lawsuit.
Also, everything I stated is my own personal opinion. It is not right to hide behind "research shows" without referencing that research. It is even worse to say " I know a researcher who says...." There is nothing wrong with personal opinion, but dont state it like fact. Most research can not be generalized to everybody. They can only be generalized to the population being studied ( usually limited to a physical location or a specific database). And even then only if it is a random sample, never a convenience sample.
Mar 4, '13 by klone, MSN, RNQuote from BCRNAYes, they actually DO take that into account. They're comparing fulltime to fulltime. I can't believe anyone actually has the gall to argue that there ISN'T a gender gap in wages.The "studies" don't take into account that more women are likely to work part time( or less ). .
Last edit by klone on Mar 4, '13
- U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, Annual Social and Economic (ASEC) Supplement, "Table PINC-05: Work Experience in 2010--People 15 Years Old and Over by Total Money Earnings in 2010, Age, Race, Hispanic Origin, and Sex" (2011).
- Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Population Survey, "Table 39: Median Weekly Earnings of Full-time Wage and Salary Workers by Detailed Occupation and Sex, 2011" (2012).
- Bureau of Labor Statistics, "Table 25: Wives Who Earn More Than Their Husbands, 1987-2009," Women in the Labor Force: A Databook: 2011 (2011).
- Bureau of Labor Statistics, "Table 1: Median Usual Weekly Earnings of Full-time Wage and Salary Workers, by Selected Characteristics, 2010 Annual Averages," Highlights of Women’s Earnings in 2010 (July 2011).
- Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Population Survey, "Table 37: Median Weekly Earnings of Full-time Wage and Salary Workers by Selected Characteristics, 2011" (2012).
- Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Population Survey, "Table 17: Median Usual Weekly Earnings of Full-time Wage and Salary Workers 25 Years and Over by Educational Attainment and Sex," 2010 Annual Averages, Women in the Labor Force: A Databook (2011 Edition).
- Bureau of Labor Statistics, "Chart 3: Percent Change of Constant-Dollar Median Usual Weekly Earnings, by Educational Attainment and Sex, 1979–2010," Highlights of Women’s Earnings in 2010 (July 2011).
- Digest of Education Statistics, "Table 283: Degrees Conferred by Degree-Granting Institutions, by Level of Degree and Sex of Student: Selected Years, 1869-70 through 2020-21," Digest of Education Statistics 2011 (2012).
- Digest of Education Statistics, "Table 8: Percentage of Persons Age 25 and Over and of Persons 25 to 29 Years Old with High School Completion or Higher and a Bachelor's or Higher Degree, by Race/Ethnicity and Sex: Selected Years, 1910 through 2011," Digest of Education Statistics 2011 (2012).
- Bureau of Labor Statistics, "Women’s Earnings and Employment by Industry, 2009," TED: The Editor’s Desk (February 16, 2011).
- Fawcett, Nicole, "Male Doctors Make $12K More Per Year Than Female Doctors," University of Michigan Health News (June 12, 2012).
- Deborah Kolb, Judith Williams, and Carol Frohlinger, "Confronting the Gender Gap in Wages," Women’s Media (April 14, 2009). Ariane Hegewisch, Claudia Williams, and Amber Henderson, "The Gender Wage Gap by Occupation," Institute for Women's Policy Research (April 2011).
- Francine D. Blau & Lawrence M. Kahn, "Gender Differences in Pay," Journal of Economic Perspectives, vol. 14, no. 4 (Fall 2000): 75-99.
- Robert G. Wood, Mary E. Corcoran, & Paul N. Courant, "Pay Differences among the Highly Paid: The Male-Female Earnings Gap in Lawyers’ Salaries," Journal of Labor Economics, vol. 11, no. 3 (July 1993): 417-440.; Catherine J. Weinberger, "Race and Gender Wage Gaps in the Market for Recent College Graduates," Industrial Relations, vol. 37, no. 1 (1998): 67-87.
- Institute for Women’s Policy Research, "Still A Man’s Labor Market: The Long-Term Earnings Gap," Research-In-Brief (February 2008).
Mar 5, '13 by hodgieRNWhere are these jobs that would pay me more for being a male? I've never seen them.
Any woman on night shift makes a lot more than me. I'm being robbed!
Mar 5, '13 by ChristopherBQuote from reznurseNursing education pays too little for most men. At least that's what my own personal experience and experience of my male coworkers has been. I'd love to do that, but if I did at most of the colleges around here, I couldn't afford to pay a mortgage. THe better paying full time faculity postitions are few and far between.I am so happy to hear more men are going into nursing. One thing I would like to learn more about is the number of males going into nursing education. I loved my one male nursing instructor and I wish there were more out there.
Mar 6, '13 by jottRNIf there is a gender gap, someone tell me where to go. My wife and I, both RNs, started our careers at a Tyler, TX hospital both making the same new grad rate. Now, working in an SICU in northwest Arkansas, I continute to make the same base pay as my female colleagues in the ICU. So, if there are pay differences, I have seen no evidence of this where I've worked.
Here are some things I've noticed personally that a few people have also mentioned already I feel might skew the results of a study.
I've noticed that my male colleagues tend to:
- work in higher pay/higher stress areas like ER, ICU, and OR compared to med/surg units where I often find I'm the only male
- more often float to other units when asked to (which has a pay differential at my facility)
- more likely to pick up extra shifts.
- less frequent call-ins compared to our women who I've noticed call in more due to sick kids or other child-care related events.
- more frequently talk of "moving up", wanting to advance their career, etc. compared to my female colleagues who more often talk of wanting to work less so as to have more time with their kids and such.
I'm sure there is a chance that some of these are regional. Here in the south, traditional family structures and values are big and my female friends at work tend to prioritize family over career. I'm also not trying to claim there is no unfairness anywhere, I am only claiming that it isn't EVERYwhere.
I feel that these studies often are detrimental to the very purpose they are trying to serve. While they attempt to promote equality, they look for issues where they don't exist and make people paranoid that they are being discriminated against. There unfortunately is discrimination out there in many forms, but in this case, I don't feel it can be generalized across the board.
Edit: Let me add that I don't dispute that gender gaps exist. Especially in fields like business. However, I think there are many factors involved besides blatant discrimination.
Mar 6, '13 by klone, MSN, RNThere, there, silly women <pats on the head>
Don't worry your pretty little heads, salary gaps don't really exist, or if they do, it's your fault.
Mar 6, '13 by Stratiotes, BSN, RNAll I'm saying is that, where I've worked, I've had the same base pay as my colleagues. The only way I can increase my weekly pay is by picking up more hours, working nights, weekends, or floating to other units to rack up differentials. So, without discounting the study altogether, I can say with certainty that if the study were to sample either of the hospitals I've worked for, they would not find a gap.
Mar 6, '13 by klone, MSN, RNQuote from StratiotesWhich is why research does not look at anecdotal evidence, but rather trends and large populations.All I'm saying is that, where I've worked, I've had the same base pay as my colleagues.
It's not ONE study that has found that men make more than women, in general. See my post on the previous page. It's mounds and mounds of evidence. Dozens of studies have found this to be true. Like I said earlier, it doesn't surprise me that this carries over into nursing as well.