Male Nurse Disgusted by Female Nurses - page 2

Hi Beth: I believe you submitted a recent article about Safe Patient/Nurse Ratios in this country. I have been a nurse for about one year and a half and I am appalled by what I have observed with... Read More

  1. by   sevensonnets
    If he's so sure he knows the solution to effect change, why wait for us female nurses? There are plenty of male nurses out there. He should rally his troops and do it without us.
  2. by   Jedrnurse
    Is it possible that the title of this post is just a bit incendiary...? Especially as it does or does not relate to the content?
  3. by   Potatoskins
    This came across as "I'll take no responsibility myself, but blame my female colleagues hysterics for not having safe patient staff ratios"

    Let me explain how this letter/question should have been written if you were actually looking for advice on staff shortages.

    "I work on a unit with staff shortages and was wondering how I could band together with my fellow colleagues to approach safe nurse to staff ratios".

    Change your attitude and you may get somewhere, but until then, you're just as dramatic for coming on a nursing forum and whining about the women you work with. You clearly didn't come here just for advice on nursing shortages or you certainly would have worded it better. It's no better and actually the same thing as the woman who runs to the bathroom crying.
    Last edit by Potatoskins on Jan 17
  4. by   Farawyn
    Quote from FSZ Student Nurse
    Interesting points Nurse Beth.... but I take issue with the premise of the letter.

    The letter writer says he is "FRUSTRATED and DISGUSTED with the TOTAL LACK OF UNITY among nurses", and then goes on to attack his female coworkers. Where does he think unity starts? Why is it their job to initiate it?

    He also writes that these nurses should confront management instead of avoiding the issue. What would happen if these nurses got together and demanded better treatment? Would they get it or would they get fired? And, how does he know they haven't tried? Maybe they have made moves to improve their working conditions, but were thwarted by management.

    BUT, the thing that bothers me the most is this bit: "Before we can begin to force change on healthcare employers we have to take ownership of our failure to unite. Ladies [emphasis mine]." Where is his ownership of this failure? What has he done to address these issues?

    ETA: I don't disagree that petty spats can undermine nurses' bargaining power, and perhaps it is more prevalent within the ranks of female nurses. But, something about that letter...
    Love this. Great response.
  5. by   Potatoskins
    Quote from AutumnApple

    Over my short (yet eventful) lifespan, one thing has bothered me with regards to the "men and women are different" debate. I've always noticed how men seem to form long lasting friendships while women tend to be more drawn to friendships of convenience.

    .
    As a female I've seriously had the same best friends since I was 12 and I'm 30. We just had a girls night last weekend. I would certainly take a bullet for either one of them and they are basically like sisters at this point. Loyalty runs strong in my bones.
  6. by   Farawyn
    Quote from AutumnApple
    I've never been a fan of blaming my environment or others for my behavior. That's just me. Also, being one who has no desire to be dependent on someone else, I've always scoffed at the "Men rule" culture we live in.

    Over my short (yet eventful) lifespan, one thing has bothered me with regards to the "men and women are different" debate. I've always noticed how men seem to form long lasting friendships while women tend to be more drawn to friendships of convenience.

    Men: They are "brothers to the bone" and willing to take a bullet for one another. "Just don't touch my wife" is all they say about it.
    Women: Best friends forever today, smearing each other's names to anyone who will listen tomorrow.

    And that is the core of the gender issue. You put it so well stating "female behavior is more divisive." I'd also agree with "no excuses" and "excuses are for people who don't take responsibility." Men had to graduate from their primitive thinking to what they are now. Isn't it time for us to do so as well? We don't have to be a slave to every preprogrammed inclining and urge.
    Completely disagree.
    Maybe you're hanging with the wrong women.
  7. by   BostonFNP
    Quote from sevensonnets
    If he's so sure he knows the solution to effect change, why wait for us female nurses? There are plenty of male nurses out there. He should rally his troops and do it without us.
    I am not attempting to defend the writer of the letter, first and foremost.

    If we take for fact that 93:7 is the percentage of female:male nurses (using the AN salary data from 2017). The collective barging power of 7% is rather limited (and that would be assuming he got every male nurse) as I think we could all admit.

    So if this disgruntled male nurse decides to take up arms against the establishment and organize some sort of collective barging group, or more likely gets into administration himself to fix the problem, doesn't that just forward the patriarchy? And if he doesn't, he gets blamed for inaction?

    How do we as a profession that is dominated by women move forward in keeping the control of the profession in the hands of women? I was shocked to find out last year that out of 5 community hospitals in 10 miles of my practice three of them have CNOs that are male.
  8. by   Libby1987
    I can't speak to the infighting as that hasn't been my experience but it's an industry that draws single parents which puts it at a disadvantage for risking your job on principle.
  9. by   SummitRN
    Excellent article Beth!

    Two points:

    1. The traditional societal gender attributes you describe as holding back nursing simply scream for nursing to capitalize on its increasing gender diversity and become more confrontational with management to achieve improvements. We should also look at the structure of nursing education and how it may work against improving gender ratios.

    2. Men are definitely taught to be competitive with each other.
  10. by   Potatoskins
    Quote from BostonFNP

    So if this disgruntled male nurse decides to take up arms against the establishment and organize some sort of collective barging group, or more likely gets into administration himself to fix the problem, doesn't that just forward the patriarchy? And if he doesn't, he gets blamed for inaction?

    .
    I would hope most women would not blame patriarchy if he fairly acquired a job in administration. It's sometimes hard to tell, but I personally would never blame inequality unless I had substantial proof it was true. Say a woman more eligible and more experienced is denied the job and it's given to a man with less experience/credentials, then I'd say "hey maybe this is inequality". Nursing doesn't have to be all women. It shouldn't be all women. I know many caring and compassionate men. If my boyfriend didn't pass out at the sight of blood he'd be an excellent nurse. I have five men in my nursing class. Four of them are amazing with patients and excellent at their jobs as techs and they'd make awesome administrators for change.
  11. by   lee1
    Until nurses SPEAK UP and stop being whipping posts and just grumbling about their lot, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Get some backbone and refuse unsafe staffing, protest to your politicians, make them aware of the situations. The nursing associations are full of managers who owe their souls to the establishment and will not do anything to help you despite years of research showing the need for safer staffing levels. What is wrong is the failure to speak up for yourself and letting things just go on as usual thinking someone else will do the work for you.
  12. by   Farawyn
    Quote from lee1
    Until nurses SPEAK UP and stop being whipping posts and just grumbling about their lot, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Get some backbone and refuse unsafe staffing, protest to your politicians, make them aware of the situations. The nursing associations are full of managers who owe their souls to the establishment and will not do anything to help you despite years of research showing the need for safer staffing levels. What is wrong is the failure to speak up for yourself and letting things just go on as usual thinking someone else will do the work for you.
    I don't think the issue was that. The issue with the letter writer was that the women he worked with disgusted him.
    He didn't say how he was working with them to change things.
    That being said, I agree with you.
    Last edit by Farawyn on Jan 17
  13. by   BostonFNP
    Quote from Farawyn
    The issue with the letter writer was that the women he worked with disgusted him.
    please stop all the petty politics among yourselves! Let's all come together as one body and push our legislators for change!! We are in the millions and we are in demand!! That is power!!

    Aside from his comments about disgusting girls (which we all know, most are infested with cooties) he did say this at the end. And he's absolutely right! We do need to put aside petty politics (just look at some of the responses). We do need to unify. We do need to push legislators and administrators. And we could have some serous power in numbers.

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