I had some trouble with a CNA...should I talk to the manager?

Nurses General Nursing

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At the hospital I work at, everyone on the nursing staff is on probation for the first 90 days of employment. Then, there are peer evaluations done by the RNs. If the employee shows that they work hard and do well, then they'll be considered permanent employees after 90 days. If they perform poorly, they'll be given another 45 days of probation to "shape up or ship out". Then it's either permanent employment or dismissal.

I work with a CNA, hired for a different ward, but who floats over to ours occasionally, who recieved a lackluster evaluation after her first 90 days of employment. She's currently going through her 45 days. I became aware of all this when a nurse from this CNA's home ward asked me how she was doing over my ward, I gave her a briefing on her performance. She thanked me, saying that the nurses have to finish up the peer evaluations on her and any input is helpful.

Not too long ago, when the CNA worked with us, I brought some photos of a party that the people on our unit had a month or so ago. The CNA came up behind me to look at the pictures and said, "I'd like to look, because I didn't go to the party." At that point, I said, sarcastically, "Oh, well, that's because you weren't invited." Then I started chuckling a little bit, turned away from her, back to look at the pictures and said, "Oh, I'm just kidding, everyone in the hospital was welcome to-OW! Did you just punch me?!" After I turned back to look at the pictures again, she had decided to hit me on my back with her fist, right over my scapula. I said, "Why did you do that? Please don't hit me. That really, really hurt. It's always been a little sore since hurting it playing sports in high school" At that point she said, "Oh, I didn't know you had a bad shoulder" and apologized.

Now, yes, I admit, I probably shouldn't have been sarcastic. But, I know that right before she hit me, I was telling her that I was joking around and that she was welcome to go. I believe that she knew I was kidding around with her, and she just thought it would be funny to hit me for some reason. But isn't making jokes to someone, like I did, a little less offensive than hitting someone, like she did to me? It may just be the way I think, but I was raised to understand that there is no reason and no good excuse to hit anyone, and that there's certainly no reason to just sit there and take it. Having this mindset about people hitting others makes me feel like it's necessary for me to go to my manager, and tell her about the incident.

But, I don't know if I should. I understand she's had her probabtion extended for not performing well, so going to the manager with this could play a big part in her being fired. Part of me thinks that I'm partly at fault, because of my sarcasm right before her hitting me. The other part stands by the thought that she really had no right to hit me, and that the way she reacted was completely out of line. I do know that if I was the manager, I'd want to hear about someone who's working on my unit who reacts in such a way. I guess what I'm requesting from all of you who read through this long post is if I should just go to the manager and tell her what happened or, just leave it be since the CNA is aware that I won't tolerate being hit anymore, and not say anything at all.

Now, I'm just flabbergasted because I never thought, being a nurse working in a hospital with other health-care professionals, that I'd feel the need to write a post to request opinions and advice about a co-worker smacking me. The entire situation makes me feel like I'm in middle school all over again.

I am not a battery victim. I don't commit acts of violence or condone acts of violence. I do believe there are words one can speak which can provoke violence. There are things I don't say because I would expect to get hit if I said them, and if I did say them I would apologize to my assailant. A big part of civilization, as I see it, is an agreement not to behave in certain ways, and if you break that agreement, you shouldn't be surprised when your victim "takes it to the next level."

It sounds from the OP that the CNA didn't intend to do harm. What was possibly intended to be semi-playfully may have been more painful than intended. Similarly, the OP's "joke" was more painful than intended. Both showed poor judgement, but neither was seriously harmed.

My advice to the OP would be to apologize for your comment and explain that it was meant to be good-natured teasing. I would also make it clear that physical assault was unacceptable, but I would not go to management. I would make sure the CNA understands that patients will occassionally commit verbal and even physical abuse, and that a health care worker must never retaliate, regardless of the provocation, and that any future hitting of co-workers or patients will be reported at once.

I totally agree....well said.

I do think I should bring up some things that have came up in my mind after reading the posts so far that I should have included in the first post.

The CNA in question has a sarcastic sense of humor, from what I have gathered from working with her in the past. At that point in time, I figured that the joke was something she could take, as we built a little bit of a rapport and knew she'd think it was a joke. It's not as if I arrive at work, and just speak to everyone in a monotone voice and walk around like a zombie. I kid around with the people I work with and make jokes. BUT, I'm also a shy person with new people, take my job very seriously, and I determine who I can joke with and who I can't before I say anything. I figure out what kind of person someone is before I open my mouth; what I say in front of a prim and proper older nurse is certainly different than what I say to a wild and crazy young doctor.

As for what I said to her; yes, I am aware I was a dork. But, if I thought I was 100% innocent in the situation, I wouldn't have posted the thread, asking for input. And I appreciate all of the input, whether it's someone that believes that nothing I could have said to her was any excuse to hit me, all the way to the joke was justified with a jab and to call it even and not whine about it anymore.

I think the main point is that she knew I was kidding around, and her way of joking around with me was a pretty swift punch to my back that took my breath away for a second, hurt pretty good at the time, and it still sore a few days after.

i agree with the other posters. our unit had a similar incident like that but one of the rpn's was emotionally hurt. really, work is the last place you'd expect to be hit by a co-worker.

but your attitude was very snobby and i can understand how it would annoy someone. i don't know why but i find a lot of nurses are like that. have you looked at yourself and thought about how you could have prevented an outburst like that? could you have been nicer and more welcoming to her? the fact that you made a comment like that then said "kidding!!!" doesn't prevent anyone from feeling. she reacted very badly. but i really think you instigated the reaction. would she have hit you if you weren't so condescending and clique?

she wanted to see the pictures. what caused you to react to her like that? why would you want to exclude someone like that? did you want her to feel bad for asking to see some pictures?

i don't think you should complain or report her. i'd give her a stern warning as a coworker and say "you know, most people get reported for assault. but i acted like an idiot by being snobby and rude. we were both wrong. let's move on!"

then, ask her if she needs help to get through her probation extension.

Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.
I think the main point is that she knew I was kidding around, and her way of joking around with me was a pretty swift punch to my back that took my breath away for a second, hurt pretty good at the time, and it still sore a few days after.

Ok. that's it. This was more than a playful punch everyone. You need to notify the supervisor or your manager and make out a report of an injury on the job and be seen by whatever doctor the hospital uses for workman's comp (your manager will direct you). This is serious and I am appalled that there are not many others that are not understanding that. You were injured, no matter how small you, or other people who are posting to this thread, think that injury was. If you end up having a more serious problem with your back or shoulder from this the hospital will do nothing to help you because you didn't follow the proper procedure to report it. I'm speaking as an experienced nursing manager. You cannot just ignore this incident. If I were a manager at your place of employment and heard about this through the gossip grapevine, I would have you in my office in a heartbeat to find out your version of the story, start an investigation, get you seen by a workman's comp physician, and notify the manager of this CNA as well as the director of nursing!

In response to the post

There are things I don't say because I would expect to get hit if I said them. . .A big part of civilization, as I see it, is an agreement not to behave in certain ways, and if you break that agreement, you shouldn't be surprised when your victim "takes it to the next level."
A big part of civilization is to act civilized and respectful, not like a bunch of cavemen. There is no acceptable place for violence in an organized, civilized society except perhaps on a football field or a boxing ring. Our constitution gives us the right to speak our peace. There's nothing in there that allows the listener to pummel the speaker. Even in the 18th century, the learned men who approved the Bill of Rights understood that.
Specializes in Telemetry & Obs.

Mitigating Circumstances:

Those which do not constitute a justification or excuse for an offense but which may be considered as reasons for reducing the penalties imposed.

You were both at fault. Yes, she shouldn't have laid a finger on your person, but YOU shouldn't have said what you did. Even among friends, I don't think anyone would think that was "joking".

As ever, jmho

Your comment to her was very immature and was not a good example to be setting...this however does not give ANYONE the right to hit someone else. I would report it. I think if I were you I would refrain from such sarcasm in the future.

:yeahthat:

Putting myself in her her shoes ... I think I would have been very embarrassed, but despite how much I feel for her.... ther is NO EXCUSE to putting your hands on someone in any way shape or form on someone you don't know (and in some cases, people you do know). What she did is assult in the workplace and she must have thought it ok.. and it is not.

She needs to be reported!

i cannot believe the "battered syndrome" mentality i have just read by many of the people answering this post. :angryfire would you all stand there and take a punch from your husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend and tolerate it by rationalizing that you deserved it? what the ****! no one ever deserves to be physically hit by another person. by all the responses i read it sounds like you would condone someone "going postal" at a workplace. what's wrong with you all? whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"? there was a crime committed here!

to bth44, the original poster--> you need to report this to this cnas manager today. also, give her the name(s) of the other people who saw this cna hit you so she has corroborating evidence. your charge nurse is not a manager so don't take her non-advice to heart--she sounds like a twit. as employees we are all entitled to a safe working environment.

:yeahthat:

Okay I'm reading posts and some say she should be reported and all. But what about you? You got smart with someone you barely knew. I usually joke with my friends, but not strangers unless they are funny themselves. I don't know how I would have taken it with you saying something like that to me. I keep readin your post and the statement you made with the CNA, but it just sounds rude. I see her hitting you, but I didn't hear anything about she was waiting on you after work to finish off the punch she just gave you. Sounds like to me you can throw PUNCHlines, but can't take PUNCHES! Go and talk with the CNA personally and discuss the incident. If she seems defensive or says she meant it then report. But then again, she already apologized when she did it cause she may not have realized how hard she hit you. If she meant it then she wouldn't have apoligized.

By the way, all that stuff I wrote ----- I was just kidding!!

Your comment to the CNA was rude and hurtful. Poor judgment on your part, but not illegal.

However, her hitting you was illegal.

What if a demented or confused pt makes a nasty comment to her?

Is she going to hit them, too?

People who express themselves through violence should not be around vulnerable pts.

If she does assault a pt as some point, and you did not report her for hitting you, wouldn't you then culpable in her assault of a pt?

You have personal knowledge of her reacting with violence, and when she's working with you, she is working under your license.

I haven't posted here in a long time, just been reading occassionally.

But your post really bothered me.

You are an RN and you should know better than to speak sarcastically to a subordinate.

You are in the position of having the CNA's evaluation judged incompetent and thus getting her fired.

I think you need to look within your own behaviour first and clean up your own act.

I agree, what the CNA did was uncalled for.....hitting someone is always wrong.

But I also agree with another poster's comments that your sarcastic comment was out of line and bordering on a "bully type mentality".

You are in no way, IMHO, justified for the comment that YOU, an RN, in a supervisory capacity over CNAs, made to a subordinate.

If I were the DON, and this were reported to me, I would say that your punishment would just as likely be as harsh as hers.

If I were you, I'd learn to keep my mouth shut and keep the sarcastic comments to myself or to only those that I knew really really well....maybe you should even keep them off the job entirely, judging from this little scuffle you got yourself into.

The reason I am so :angryfire about this, is that MY own supervisor once made a derogatory remark to me in front of 2 of my co-workers, and I was so hurt and embarrassed. I know how it feels to be put down by your supervisor. It is not funny. I didn't hit her, but 2 days later, I let her know exactly how I felt, and she backed down. I could have really gotten her in a lot of trouble if I had taken the compaint over her head.

Specializes in Urgent Care.

Obviously not justified, very wrong of her to do, but whatever happened to people working out their differences face to face. Why not talk with her, let her know it was not appropriate and you COULD report her, which would likely cost her a job, and that behavior is unacceptable and should never happen again. and see if she learns and grows from the one on one face time, and a lesson learned.

I'd probably just talk to her personally, as long as you don't feel threatened. I think the air probably needs to be cleared between the two of you.

I would have been really hurt and embarassed if I were a new staff member, esp if I were a CNA and a nurse said it to me. I would only find that type of comment funny if we were friends.

I'm not condoning her hitting you, and it is something to worry about, but I feel kinda sorry for her b/c I can just imagine how she felt.

After talking to her, if you have any reason to believe there's still a "situation," either between the two of you or with her in general, report it then. I'd probably keep an eye on her interactions with patients too.

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