Hey, Managers! What's up with the "weeding out" of good nurses? - page 5

Recently there's been a spate of write-ups I've heard about that are basically bogus. Minor infractions that no one else would get written up over. I'm furious. On the surface, it doesn't seem to... Read More

  1. by   Ruby Vee
    [font="comic sans ms"]
    Quote from angie o'plasty, rn
    just a quick note to remind you all that this thread is about weeding out good nurses, not having problems getting rid of bad ones.

    i'll reiterate briefly:

    in just the past three months, i have seen about four very good, experienced nurses written up for trivialities that most other nurses would not have been written up for.

    three of those four are leaving.

    it's upsetting to lose people you enjoyed working with, but more upsetting to realize that these nurses have been excellent resources to new grads and less experienced nurses alike.

    is this some kind of a trend? why are these units not bending over backwards to keep these nurses?

    instead, it seems as if the unit managers are gently showing these nurses the door.

    i don't get it. after almost 30 years in healthcare in various capacities, i've seen this phenomenon play out many many times, but i still don't get it.

    can anyone explain why this targeting happens?
    [font="comic sans ms"]i'm not a manager, nor have i ever been. but i've seen this targeting happen twice, (maybe three or four times -- but twice that i'm sure of), and both times with a brand new manager. (actually, all four times were with brand new managers.)

    the first time, i was 26, had five years of experience (in 3 different jobs) and a woman was promoted who had only three years of experience, all of it on that floor. kr had been my preceptor when i started on that floor the year before. it was clear from the moment i started that she was intimidated by the fact that i had more experience than she did. but it was a cliquey floor, and kr was well-liked by management. when the manager left, kr was promoted, and i was happy for her. (i thought she liked me.) over the next six months, she managed to get rid of every nurse there who had more experience than she. i was the last. (hey, maybe she did like me!)

    linda had once made a comment that she thought float pool would be interesting, and she came in to work one night to find her name signed up on the job posting sheet for an interview in float pool. she took the job. deb had mentioned an interest in the telemetry unit, and they called her at home one day offering her an interview. etc. etc. when i came in to work and found my name on the job posting sheet for micu (in my manager's handwriting) i knew my time had come. even though i had never expressed an interest in critical care, my manager had mentioned during an evaluation that she thought i'd shine there. i did.

    in this case, i think kr was just intimidated or threatened by nurses with more experience than she. she didn't really have that much experience as a staff nurse to be running a unit, and i think she was insecure.

    the other time that i'm sure of was also a brand new manager, brought in from a nursing home to be manager of a critical care unit. she knew absolutely nothing about the job she was supervising, and a few of the more experienced nurses called her on some of the gross errors she made. the newer, less experienced nurses would go along with some of her more questionable management decrees because they figured that she was the manager, she must know, right? wrong. within a year, she'd weeded out everyone who had been in that unit for more than a decade -- about half of her staff. when i last heard, she had an entire staff of newbies who leave after less than two years. it's sad, really. i think here, too the manager was intimidated by folks who knew more than she, rather than using the wealth and depth of experience there to the benefit of the unit.
  2. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from nursingis4me
    Hey guys/gals,
    What's up w/ scaring off those of us who really want to be nurses? I know there's crap wherever you work (I've experienced that, but managed to come thru ok), but d***, is it really that bad? Should I be considering a career change to something other than nursing (I'm currently a m.a. who's looking to go back to school)? :uhoh21:
    No one is here, trying to scare you. That is not the purpose of the thread. The situations being discussed here are real and do happen. There are lots of great things about nursing, too. Suggest you possibly may do a search for "love of nursing" or "why I love Nursing" here, to find threads that may encourage you more.

    Understand, this is a board of professionals, discussing topics that are near and dear to their hearts. No one intends to start these threads to scare you off from going for a dream or goal. Good luck to you.
  3. by   RNforLongTime
    Well, I was FIRED over 8 months ago for giving a pt xanax and restoril prn as ordered. I think it was because of my HIGH hourly wage and the fact that my Health insurance rate had gone WAY down! Was told that I had problem with "oversedating" my patients. Yet nothing was ever mentioned in my most recent evaluations, the last one being less than two months from the date that I was fired. Took me 2 months to find another job. The new grads were making 7 dollars LESS an hr than what I was making.

    The boss used an 'incident', if you want to call it that, to have me fired. I attest to this day that I did nothing wrong. Even got unemployment benefits, so obviously the state felt that nothing wrong had occured either.

    I miss my former colleagues, I miss the technology, but I don't miss the toxic environment.
  4. by   RN34TX
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    No one is here, trying to scare you. That is not the purpose of the thread. The situations being discussed here are real and do happen. There are lots of great things about nursing, too. Suggest you possibly may do a search for "love of nursing" or "why I love Nursing" here, to find threads that may encourage you more.

    Understand, this is a board of professionals, discussing topics that are near and dear to their hearts. No one intends to start these threads to scare you off from going for a dream or goal. Good luck to you.
    At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to be exclusive, which I'm not, I really think that some threads are just plain inappropriate for pre-nursing and nursing students to be reading.

    Threads such as this one, deal with experienced nurses and the day to day politics of administration, hospital nursing, favoritism, etc. and I can see why the posts would scare and discourage the would-be nurse.

    I sometimes see a student pop in on a topic such as this one, and I just think that they have enough on their plate just getting through their nursing programs without worrying about things like co-workers sabotaging them or managers unjustly firing them or forcing them to quit.

    They'll have plenty of time to get involved in all of that stuff after graduating and getting off orientation.

    That's not to say that one shouldn't read any topic that interests them, but to say that one should keep in mind that topics such as this are intended to be discussion amongst professionals who are long out of school and dealing with certain issues in the workplace from a nurse's standpoint, not that of a student, and that the discussion is not intended to be handled with kid gloves in order to preserve a positive image of nursing for the sake of a students eyes and ears.

    In my experience, in a normal work setting, certain topics are discussed in quiet away from the students doing clinicals and new grads on the unit and this is done for a good reason.

    Here, we are all together from pre-nursing to retired RN with total access to all of the discussions and that's how some of the topics can blow away and discourage the new nurses/students. Hopefully, most will keep in mind that these types of discussions are not meant to represent the entire profession as seen through the eyes of a student or an outsider considering going into nursing.
  5. by   UM Review RN
    Quote from RN34TX
    At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to be exclusive, which I'm not, I really think that some threads are just plain inappropriate for pre-nursing and nursing students to be reading.

    Threads such as this one, deal with experienced nurses and the day to day politics of administration, hospital nursing, favoritism, etc. and I can see why the posts would scare and discourage the would-be nurse.

    I sometimes see a student pop in on a topic such as this one, and I just think that they have enough on their plate just getting through their nursing programs without worrying about things like co-workers sabotaging them or managers unjustly firing them or forcing them to quit.

    They'll have plenty of time to get involved in all of that stuff after graduating and getting off orientation.

    That's not to say that one shouldn't read any topic that interests them, but to say that one should keep in mind that topics such as this are intended to be discussion amongst professionals who are long out of school and dealing with certain issues in the workplace from a nurse's standpoint, not that of a student, and that the discussion is not intended to be handled with kid gloves in order to preserve a positive image of nursing for the sake of a students eyes and ears.

    In my experience, in a normal work setting, certain topics are discussed in quiet away from the students doing clinicals and new grads on the unit and this is done for a good reason.

    Here, we are all together from pre-nursing to retired RN with total access to all of the discussions and that's how some of the topics can blow away and discourage the new nurses/students. Hopefully, most will keep in mind that these types of discussions are not meant to represent the entire profession as seen through the eyes of a student or an outsider considering going into nursing.

    I understand where you're coming from, but we place such great emphasis on nursing history, and this phenomenom is such a huge part of (unspoken) nursing culture, that I submit that new grads do need to be aware that it goes on. They need to have tools to deal with it, if or when it happens to them.

    And maybe they also need to realize that if they get into a management position, maybe they also need to understand that just because this has been a part of the workplace culture, does not mean that it must always be. Maybe this little dysfunction of the profession can change with leaders who are aware, active, and involved.

    One could hope.
  6. by   Tweety
    I agree Angie. No need to sugarcoat the reality of nursing. However, I don't see it as a "huge" problem.

    It's not nursing culture to target nurses and fire them for no good reason anymore than it's nursing culture that nurses eat their young.

    As evidenced by the posts here, however, it does happen. I'm not denying that. It needs to be discussed and in full view of new grads and nursing students. However, I'm not willing to label the profession as one that disposes of it's old higher paid nurses or nurses for no good reason, while at the same time eating their young.
  7. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from earle58
    i would be highly surprised in an offender actually answering.
    my experience(s) have taught me that if you are targeted by mgmt, you are dealing w/those w/o a conscience.
    and creating pretexted files to deliberately leave a paper trail is a situation that is best handled by a nurse or employment atty, for wrongful termination.
    it happens and these people would screw over their own mothers.
    it seems that the nsg profession is becoming more and more of a battlefield.
    i've traded my danskos for army boots.

    leslie
    The really successful psychopaths are running corporations etc. Sad to say I had to fold my tent after being harassed for over 2 years by a manager. Look for work elsewhere. People like this will bully their bosses into letting them hurt you for no good reason.
  8. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from nurse-lou
    Well, I was FIRED over 8 months ago for giving a pt xanax and restoril prn as ordered. I think it was because of my HIGH hourly wage and the fact that my Health insurance rate had gone WAY down! Was told that I had problem with "oversedating" my patients. Yet nothing was ever mentioned in my most recent evaluations, the last one being less than two months from the date that I was fired. Took me 2 months to find another job. The new grads were making 7 dollars LESS an hr than what I was making.

    The boss used an 'incident', if you want to call it that, to have me fired. I attest to this day that I did nothing wrong. Even got unemployment benefits, so obviously the state felt that nothing wrong had occured either.

    I miss my former colleagues, I miss the technology, but I don't miss the toxic environment.
    Awful!
  9. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from pyrolady
    I know of someone who has been targeted by Directors. She is a Manager, not a floor nurse. When evil people decide to do evil things, it really doesn't matter who you are. If you are their target, you're done. They will keep after you until they run you into the ground and you leave. This usually happens when management has a "click" and no particular leader who knows what they are doing. It becomes a pack mentality. As for my friend, she will be on to bigger and better things. Why? Because she is good, and THAT is what they are afraid of.
    Describes the classic Bully Boss. I have looked evil in the eye and it isn't pretty.
  10. by   CseMgr1
    Quote from earle58
    doesn't matter.
    if 'they' want you gone, there's no saving yourself.
    you're a goner.

    leslie
    :yeahthat:

    I found that out the hard way eleven days ago.

    When I was accused of "not meeting productivity" and countered with documentation that I had not received the promised necessary training to perform the job for which I was hired for, I was fired.

    I should have ran for the hills the first week, when the TCM working in the cube next to me told me that she had just been assigned 800 case
    files to clean up. Never mind that she was also receiving triage calls on her line at the rate of 15-20 per hour :uhoh21:

    It was obvious from the getgo that this company was in desperate straits to begin with, and had NO plans to train me, contending that from day
    one "I was supposed to be processing 25-30 cases per day". Yet this expectation was not conveyed to me until two days before I was canned.

    And I was too blind to realize what this Manager was up to, when he passed by me the day before, with this epitath: "Take care of yourself".

    But where was he, when I got "the call"?



    You guessed right.
  11. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from Jolie
    I am absolutely certain that what Angie O'Plasty describes does happen, in nursing and every other field under the sun. It sickens me.

    I know of at least 2 people who have been terminated and/or denied advancement in their positions because their families "over-utilized" health care benefits. These family members weren't hypochondriacs, but needed legitimate treatment for serious health conditions. Neither case involved the actual employee, so absence from work wasn't the issue, either.

    There ought to be a special place in he** for those who terminate employment because a family member utilizes the very benefits the employee has EARNED.
    Another argument for a single payer health care plan.
  12. by   rehab nurse
    Quote from nurse-lou
    Well, I was FIRED over 8 months ago for giving a pt xanax and restoril prn as ordered. I think it was because of my HIGH hourly wage and the fact that my Health insurance rate had gone WAY down! Was told that I had problem with "oversedating" my patients. Yet nothing was ever mentioned in my most recent evaluations, the last one being less than two months from the date that I was fired. Took me 2 months to find another job. The new grads were making 7 dollars LESS an hr than what I was making.

    The boss used an 'incident', if you want to call it that, to have me fired. I attest to this day that I did nothing wrong. Even got unemployment benefits, so obviously the state felt that nothing wrong had occured either.

    I miss my former colleagues, I miss the technology, but I don't miss the toxic environment.
    nurselou, i know exactly where you're coming from. my DON actually suspended me the first week of her job when she found out *GASP* that as a 3-11 nurse, i gave my patients the PRN's they requested. one such order was for vicodin 5/500 one tab, ambien 5mg one tab, and a SCHEDULED hs Xanax 0.5mg. They claimed the same thing. No one else does that! they said. Well, of course day shift and midnights don't give HS meds. The 3-11 nurse does. Who's the 3-11 nurse? ME! The patient had orders for all of the above, and got the same thing, night after night.
    It's such a joke that nurses get disciplined for giving patients their ordered meds, or the ordered PRN meds that they REQUEST. Nothing in the order said, "don't give ambien if giving a xanax", or "don't give this if you're giving that". It's such a joke.
    I'll be glad when I am out of that place. They are just trying to find something, anything that they can fire me for. All because I "take too much medical leave". Well, that's a federal law, and there's nothing they can do about it. Oh, and of course I'm top of my pay scale, use a ton of benefits since becoming ill, and have been there longer than anyone else. Been through three sets of management in just five years. Went from no citations, to regular state visits due to complaints about poor care, understaffing, etc. Like I said, I'll be glad to leave.
    I haven't been fired yet, but I know it's in the works. Even the docs told me "to watch my back". Totally pathetic management.
  13. by   TazziRN
    This is not the first time a student has made a comment on a vent thread about scaring them off. We are not here to scare students off, we are here to vent. Before you jump to conclusions, do a search about how many of us love our jobs in spite of the boolchit. Students and pre-students are more than welcome here, but please don't assume that the licensed nurses at a nursing forum have a plan to scare you. Not to be mean, but "How can I scare a student today?" is not the first thought in our minds when we post.

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