Hey, Managers! What's up with the "weeding out" of good nurses?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Recently there's been a spate of write-ups I've heard about that are basically bogus. Minor infractions that no one else would get written up over. I'm furious.

On the surface, it doesn't seem to be a big deal. But anyone who's been in health care can tell you--our nursing culture teaches us that bogus write-ups are a warning to get outta Dodge; it's useless to fight; easier to just change units.

So these nurses have all left for greener pastures.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the nurses were targeted because they earned more than new grads. Because coincidentally, there are a few new grads on each of these units, and the basic "numbers" of the nurses has not changed. In years.

So 'fess up, Managers, what's the deal? Is this what really is happening out there? Is your budget such that it looks better for you to keep the new grads rather than the experienced nurses? Do you use bogus writeups to "encourage" certain nurses to leave?

Or is something else afoot here?

Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
Interesting. My question is whether their performance was ever addressed in their annual evalution or by the previous nurse manager in any sort of documented one-on-one evaluation, or performance improvement plan. I have pulled files on staff nurses that contained incident reports and complaints and yet no documentation from the prior nurse manager in the annual eval or any sort of performance improvement plan. As a matter of fact, the annual eval stated no definicies and the indiviual had good overall performance. As I see it, this is primarily a failure of management. There should be distinct, gradual, documentation of poor performance BY THE MANAGER. Otherwise, unfortunately, as the new manager, you basically start from scratch. If their performance is dangerously unsafe then you should consider reporting to the Board of Nursing, otherwise you must allow a gradual, documented performance improvement plan that clearly documents the issues and what is required to demonstrate mastery and competence. It sounds like you started that, however the effort was cut short. At least, you have begun the documentation process but you alos have to demonstrate that you have made reasonable effort to give them the information necessary to improve.

Yes, there was ample evidence of previous complaints being followed-up by the previous manager. She documented counseling, retraining specific to the events that had been written up, and brief periods of re-assignment to other units more suitable to these nurses' skills and knowledge base. Annual evals reflected this also, but they were meaningless, as they were not tied to employment security, raises, or any other incentive.

Basically all was for naught, because despite their continued poor performance, administration refused to allow the former manager or me to take any effective action to require improved performance or remove them from the unit. It became a running joke that they must have either been related to our CNO, or had some really good dirt on her, because we could think of no other reason to protect them. Meanwhile, another very skilled and knowledgable nurse almost lost her job due to a single med error that she self-reported. Had she not been honest, no one would have known that the error occured. All 3 of these nurses were senior people with many years experience in various areas of the hospital, so their salaries and benefits would have been similar. I doubt that was the motivation for the differences in their treatment by administration.

I didn't last long in that job. My letter of resignation indicated that I was unwilling to be responsible for the care delivered by anyone but myself, given administration's "blind eye" to the performance of some staff members. I stayed on for 2 more years in a staff nurse capacity. The unit manager position was filled twice during that time. When the second manager after me left, they did away with the position, combining it with another unit management job.

Specializes in Utilization Management.

Just a quick note to remind you all that this thread is about weeding out GOOD nurses, not having problems getting rid of bad ones.

I'll reiterate briefly:

In just the past three months, I have seen about four very good, experienced nurses written up for trivialities that most other nurses would not have been written up for.

Three of those four are leaving.

It's upsetting to lose people you enjoyed working with, but more upsetting to realize that these nurses have been excellent resources to new grads and less experienced nurses alike.

Is this some kind of a trend? Why are these units not bending over backwards to keep these nurses?

Instead, it seems as if the Unit Managers are gently showing these nurses the door.

I don't get it. After almost 30 years in healthcare in various capacities, I've seen this phenomenon play out many many times, but I still don't get it.

Can anyone explain why this targeting happens?

Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
Just a quick note to remind you all that this thread is about weeding out GOOD nurses, not having problems getting rid of bad ones.

I'll reiterate briefly:

In just the past three months, I have seen about four very good, experienced nurses written up for trivialities that most other nurses would not have been written up for.

Three of those four are leaving.

It's upsetting to lose people you enjoyed working with, but more upsetting to realize that these nurses have been excellent resources to new grads and less experienced nurses alike.

Is this some kind of a trend? Why are these units not bending over backwards to keep these nurses?

Instead, it seems as if the Unit Managers are gently showing these nurses the door.

I don't get it. After almost 30 years in healthcare in various capacities, I've seen this phenomenon play out many many times, but I still don't get it.

Can anyone explain why this targeting happens?

Sorry to have gotten a little off-topic with some of my posts. But on the other hand, I don't think they were really so far off at all. In my experience, nurse managers amount to figureheads intended to protect administration. They have very little REAL authority over hiring, firing, or discipline decisions on their units, and simply enact the changes they are instructed to enact. They exist largely to do the dirty work of administration (retaining unfit nurses favored by administration, running off the excellent, but expensive experienced nurses that administration no longer wants to pay, creating evaluations that "match" administration's plans for a particular nurse, participate in force-ranking of employes as mandated by administration, etc.)

Of course, it is terribly short-sighted of administration NOT to see the benefit of these nurses' years of experience. But administrators with vision for anything other than the short-term budget are few and far between. It's not only the higher hourly pay rates of experienced nurses that is problemmatic to administration. It is their age, meaning that they will begin to utilize health benefits at a much greater rate (if they haven't already), it's their likelihood of needing FMLA time for medical conditions, it is the increased cost of pensions and retirement should the employee hit the "magic" 20 year or 25 year mark, and it is their savvy in dealing with management/administration, such as refusing to do mandatory OT, refusing to be bullied into taking extra scheduled shifts, refusing to give up vacation plans if the unit is short staffed, etc.

Yes, I know that young nurses get pregnant and take leave as well, but most of them are healthy, experience uncomplicated pregnancies, have little sick time built up, and need to return to work promptly, so their leaves cost the hospital very little. They are also far more vulnerable to pressure by management to do OT, take extra shifts, not complain when they are cancelled, put off their own plans when the unit is in need of staff, etc.

So, in summary, administration WANTS young, fearful, inexperienced nurses that will do whatever they are told, and won't cost much in terms of salary and benefits. As long as they have RN after their names, they are qualified, in administration's eyes!

Specializes in medical assistant.

Hey guys/gals,

What's up w/ scaring off those of us who really want to be nurses? :madface: I know there's crap wherever you work (I've experienced that, but managed to come thru ok), but d***, is it really that bad? :(Should I be considering a career change to something other than nursing (I'm currently a m.a. who's looking to go back to school)? :uhoh21:

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
just a quick note to remind you all that this thread is about weeding out good nurses, not having problems getting rid of bad ones.

i'll reiterate briefly:

in just the past three months, i have seen about four very good, experienced nurses written up for trivialities that most other nurses would not have been written up for.

three of those four are leaving.

it's upsetting to lose people you enjoyed working with, but more upsetting to realize that these nurses have been excellent resources to new grads and less experienced nurses alike.

is this some kind of a trend? why are these units not bending over backwards to keep these nurses?

instead, it seems as if the unit managers are gently showing these nurses the door.

i don't get it. after almost 30 years in healthcare in various capacities, i've seen this phenomenon play out many many times, but i still don't get it.

can anyone explain why this targeting happens?

i'm not a manager, nor have i ever been. but i've seen this targeting happen twice, (maybe three or four times -- but twice that i'm sure of), and both times with a brand new manager. (actually, all four times were with brand new managers.)

the first time, i was 26, had five years of experience (in 3 different jobs) and a woman was promoted who had only three years of experience, all of it on that floor. kr had been my preceptor when i started on that floor the year before. it was clear from the moment i started that she was intimidated by the fact that i had more experience than she did. but it was a cliquey floor, and kr was well-liked by management. when the manager left, kr was promoted, and i was happy for her. (i thought she liked me.) over the next six months, she managed to get rid of every nurse there who had more experience than she. i was the last. (hey, maybe she did like me!)

linda had once made a comment that she thought float pool would be interesting, and she came in to work one night to find her name signed up on the job posting sheet for an interview in float pool. she took the job. deb had mentioned an interest in the telemetry unit, and they called her at home one day offering her an interview. etc. etc. when i came in to work and found my name on the job posting sheet for micu (in my manager's handwriting) i knew my time had come. even though i had never expressed an interest in critical care, my manager had mentioned during an evaluation that she thought i'd shine there. i did.

in this case, i think kr was just intimidated or threatened by nurses with more experience than she. she didn't really have that much experience as a staff nurse to be running a unit, and i think she was insecure.

the other time that i'm sure of was also a brand new manager, brought in from a nursing home to be manager of a critical care unit. she knew absolutely nothing about the job she was supervising, and a few of the more experienced nurses called her on some of the gross errors she made. the newer, less experienced nurses would go along with some of her more questionable management decrees because they figured that she was the manager, she must know, right? wrong. within a year, she'd weeded out everyone who had been in that unit for more than a decade -- about half of her staff. when i last heard, she had an entire staff of newbies who leave after less than two years. it's sad, really. i think here, too the manager was intimidated by folks who knew more than she, rather than using the wealth and depth of experience there to the benefit of the unit.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Hey guys/gals,

What's up w/ scaring off those of us who really want to be nurses? :madface: I know there's crap wherever you work (I've experienced that, but managed to come thru ok), but d***, is it really that bad? :(Should I be considering a career change to something other than nursing (I'm currently a m.a. who's looking to go back to school)? :uhoh21:

No one is here, trying to scare you. That is not the purpose of the thread. The situations being discussed here are real and do happen. There are lots of great things about nursing, too. Suggest you possibly may do a search for "love of nursing" or "why I love Nursing" here, to find threads that may encourage you more.

Understand, this is a board of professionals, discussing topics that are near and dear to their hearts. No one intends to start these threads to scare you off from going for a dream or goal. Good luck to you.

Specializes in Med-Surg Nursing.

Well, I was FIRED over 8 months ago for giving a pt xanax and restoril prn as ordered. I think it was because of my HIGH hourly wage and the fact that my Health insurance rate had gone WAY down! Was told that I had problem with "oversedating" my patients. Yet nothing was ever mentioned in my most recent evaluations, the last one being less than two months from the date that I was fired. Took me 2 months to find another job. The new grads were making 7 dollars LESS an hr than what I was making.

The boss used an 'incident', if you want to call it that, to have me fired. I attest to this day that I did nothing wrong. Even got unemployment benefits, so obviously the state felt that nothing wrong had occured either.

I miss my former colleagues, I miss the technology, but I don't miss the toxic environment.

No one is here, trying to scare you. That is not the purpose of the thread. The situations being discussed here are real and do happen. There are lots of great things about nursing, too. Suggest you possibly may do a search for "love of nursing" or "why I love Nursing" here, to find threads that may encourage you more.

Understand, this is a board of professionals, discussing topics that are near and dear to their hearts. No one intends to start these threads to scare you off from going for a dream or goal. Good luck to you.

At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to be exclusive, which I'm not, I really think that some threads are just plain inappropriate for pre-nursing and nursing students to be reading.

Threads such as this one, deal with experienced nurses and the day to day politics of administration, hospital nursing, favoritism, etc. and I can see why the posts would scare and discourage the would-be nurse.

I sometimes see a student pop in on a topic such as this one, and I just think that they have enough on their plate just getting through their nursing programs without worrying about things like co-workers sabotaging them or managers unjustly firing them or forcing them to quit.

They'll have plenty of time to get involved in all of that stuff after graduating and getting off orientation.

That's not to say that one shouldn't read any topic that interests them, but to say that one should keep in mind that topics such as this are intended to be discussion amongst professionals who are long out of school and dealing with certain issues in the workplace from a nurse's standpoint, not that of a student, and that the discussion is not intended to be handled with kid gloves in order to preserve a positive image of nursing for the sake of a students eyes and ears.

In my experience, in a normal work setting, certain topics are discussed in quiet away from the students doing clinicals and new grads on the unit and this is done for a good reason.

Here, we are all together from pre-nursing to retired RN with total access to all of the discussions and that's how some of the topics can blow away and discourage the new nurses/students. Hopefully, most will keep in mind that these types of discussions are not meant to represent the entire profession as seen through the eyes of a student or an outsider considering going into nursing.

Specializes in Utilization Management.
At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to be exclusive, which I'm not, I really think that some threads are just plain inappropriate for pre-nursing and nursing students to be reading.

Threads such as this one, deal with experienced nurses and the day to day politics of administration, hospital nursing, favoritism, etc. and I can see why the posts would scare and discourage the would-be nurse.

I sometimes see a student pop in on a topic such as this one, and I just think that they have enough on their plate just getting through their nursing programs without worrying about things like co-workers sabotaging them or managers unjustly firing them or forcing them to quit.

They'll have plenty of time to get involved in all of that stuff after graduating and getting off orientation.

That's not to say that one shouldn't read any topic that interests them, but to say that one should keep in mind that topics such as this are intended to be discussion amongst professionals who are long out of school and dealing with certain issues in the workplace from a nurse's standpoint, not that of a student, and that the discussion is not intended to be handled with kid gloves in order to preserve a positive image of nursing for the sake of a students eyes and ears.

In my experience, in a normal work setting, certain topics are discussed in quiet away from the students doing clinicals and new grads on the unit and this is done for a good reason.

Here, we are all together from pre-nursing to retired RN with total access to all of the discussions and that's how some of the topics can blow away and discourage the new nurses/students. Hopefully, most will keep in mind that these types of discussions are not meant to represent the entire profession as seen through the eyes of a student or an outsider considering going into nursing.

I understand where you're coming from, but we place such great emphasis on nursing history, and this phenomenom is such a huge part of (unspoken) nursing culture, that I submit that new grads do need to be aware that it goes on. They need to have tools to deal with it, if or when it happens to them.

And maybe they also need to realize that if they get into a management position, maybe they also need to understand that just because this has been a part of the workplace culture, does not mean that it must always be. Maybe this little dysfunction of the profession can change with leaders who are aware, active, and involved.

One could hope.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

I agree Angie. No need to sugarcoat the reality of nursing. However, I don't see it as a "huge" problem.

It's not nursing culture to target nurses and fire them for no good reason anymore than it's nursing culture that nurses eat their young.

As evidenced by the posts here, however, it does happen. I'm not denying that. It needs to be discussed and in full view of new grads and nursing students. However, I'm not willing to label the profession as one that disposes of it's old higher paid nurses or nurses for no good reason, while at the same time eating their young.

i would be highly surprised in an offender actually answering.

my experience(s) have taught me that if you are targeted by mgmt, you are dealing w/those w/o a conscience.

and creating pretexted files to deliberately leave a paper trail is a situation that is best handled by a nurse or employment atty, for wrongful termination.

it happens and these people would screw over their own mothers.

it seems that the nsg profession is becoming more and more of a battlefield.

i've traded my danskos for army boots.

leslie

The really successful psychopaths are running corporations etc. Sad to say I had to fold my tent after being harassed for over 2 years by a manager. Look for work elsewhere. People like this will bully their bosses into letting them hurt you for no good reason.

Well, I was FIRED over 8 months ago for giving a pt xanax and restoril prn as ordered. I think it was because of my HIGH hourly wage and the fact that my Health insurance rate had gone WAY down! Was told that I had problem with "oversedating" my patients. Yet nothing was ever mentioned in my most recent evaluations, the last one being less than two months from the date that I was fired. Took me 2 months to find another job. The new grads were making 7 dollars LESS an hr than what I was making.

The boss used an 'incident', if you want to call it that, to have me fired. I attest to this day that I did nothing wrong. Even got unemployment benefits, so obviously the state felt that nothing wrong had occured either.

I miss my former colleagues, I miss the technology, but I don't miss the toxic environment.

Awful!

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