Ethics Violation-Would you remain silent or challenge the system? - page 9

Today I was labeled a "whistleblower and tattletail because I, along with numerous other students, witnessed a table of individuals cheating on an exam in our Anatomy and Physiology class which is a... Read More

  1. by   Redlady
    Quote from reebok
    Last Post!

    I understand what you all are saying but you are all misunderstanding me.
    CHEATING IS NOT "OKAY" EVEN UNDER EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES. IS IT 100% NECESSARY FOR HER TO REPORT THE CHEATERS OF A PREREQUISITE TEST? Most say yes it is important. One nurse even boldly declared that cheating on ONE PreREQ test will make you an unethical and incompetent nurse in clinical situations.

    The original post was should she go report to the upper authorities. My answer is NO!!! Why b/c it's a waste of time. The nursing school should be able to weed out who is appropiate and not. They dont need her help.
    Unless it deals with direct potential for patient harm or a threat to the school's reputation it is not worth the time. Well at least my time.

    So cheating is not okay. But giving the circumstances. Professor who doesnt care. Prerequisite. No life or death situation. Why waste Calories and time walking to some upper authority. The upper authority may even look at you like why is he/she wasting my time. There is more pressing stuff I have to deal with right now. I just dont see how you can relate cheating on one test automatically making a nurse unethical & incompetent. Trust me the cheater would not be able to make it through nursing school.
    Not reporting it is the same as condoning it (IMO). It is a sad state of affairs when you can't be 'bothered' to report unethical behavior.

    But to each his/her own I suppose. If you want to be an enabler - I suppose that is your perogative - but a cowardly one as far as I'm concerned. Frankly, I'm suprised you chose nursing/health as a profession in the first place since you seem like you can't be 'bothered' by things that don't directly benifit you in some way.

    Sometimes you have to do what is right for the sake of what is right.
  2. by   luvmy3kids
    Quote from reebok
    The point being made was that there is no evidence that there wasn't any evidence of extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test.
    EX:
    Sally didn't plan to cheat but since the opportunity presented itself and the professor could careless WHY NOT? Besides everyone else is doing it. A voice in her head is saying," God I know this is wrong, but I promise I will go back and study this material so I can understand it later" Right now she is worried about more important issues at hand.
    I'll I have to say is.....

    Enough already.... geesh
  3. by   kenny b
    Quote from reebok
    Last Post!

    I understand what you all are saying but you are all misunderstanding me.
    CHEATING IS NOT "OKAY" EVEN UNDER EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES. IS IT 100% NECESSARY FOR HER TO REPORT THE CHEATERS OF A PREREQUISITE TEST? Most say yes it is important. One nurse even boldly declared that cheating on ONE PreREQ test will make you an unethical and incompetent nurse in clinical situations.

    The original post was should she go report to the upper authorities. My answer is NO!!! Why b/c it's a waste of time. The nursing school should be able to weed out who is appropiate and not. They dont need her help.
    Unless it deals with direct potential for patient harm or a threat to the school's reputation it is not worth the time. Well at least my time.

    So cheating is not okay. But giving the circumstances. Professor who doesnt care. Prerequisite. No life or death situation. Why waste Calories and time walking to some upper authority. The upper authority may even look at you like why is he/she wasting my time. There is more pressing stuff I have to deal with right now. I just dont see how you can relate cheating on one test automatically making a nurse unethical & incompetent. Trust me the cheater would not be able to make it through nursing school.
    If you'll permit me Reebok, I think I have something you haven't heard here, which might even make it worth your while to add one more post. If you don't post, I'll have to assume that I have a valid point (because I strongly suspect that it'll be very difficult for you to avoid reading my addition to the thread).

    I agree with your assertion that cheating on one prereq test does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the cheater would be a bad nurse. They could "come to Jesus" so to speak at some point and be better for it. I know that some trucking companies would rather have a driver with one old ticket than a driver with no tickets.

    I also understand your point about how reporting the cheater could be a waste of time and that they should be weeded out in the future.

    However, I have a thesis that I'd challenge you to dismantel.

    There are lots of people competing for the program.
    Question: Who should get in to the last available slots? The cheaters or the students who made the grade without cheating? Sure it's possible that the cheaters would make better nurses, but it's also possible that those who made the grade without cheating would make better nurses.

    So if we don't consider who would make a better nurse, we could look at who would be more likely to survive the program. If the cheaters beat the students who earned good grades (but not as good as those of the cheaters), then aren't they bumping more deserving candidates from the program (or at the very least, delaying them)?

    You say that the nursin program will weed these folks out, but perhaps not before they blow it for someone else who is more likely to succeed. On the strength of this reality, I submit that it is worthwhile to turn the cheaters in.

    You, yourself said that cheating should not be condoned no matter what the circumstances.
    You also said that nursing school would weed out the cheaters.

    It is on the strength of these two statements that I make my case.

    (also, I was wondering if you have considered a career as a trial defense attorney, or perhaps a divorce lawyer)?
  4. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from mom23RN
    Good for you!!!!!

    I am so sick of people turning a blind eye to things that they KNOW are wrong and using the excuse that it's "none of my business". Our socitey is SO out of control because we all think it's "none of our business". Well... good for you for standing up for what is good and right.

    I wish more people would take a lesson from your example.

    As for the threats, I would confront them if you have any more issues. This is a legal issue. If they threaten you then contact the police (campus or otherwise). They need to be expelled from the program. There are too many honest, harworking people trying to get in to allow this type of behavior.

    You may just want to report what has happened to the authorities even after teh fact. Just to have a record in case it progresses.

    Good luck!

    I think you should file a police report. Campus police and city police. Name names.
  5. by   Daytonite
    Quote from reebok
    . . .So cheating is not okay. But giving the circumstances. Professor who doesnt care. Prerequisite. No life or death situation. Why waste Calories and time walking to some upper authority. The upper authority may even look at you like why is he/she wasting my time. . .
    The problem with your logic here, however, is that the person doesn't know that reporting the cheater is going to be a waste of time because they don't know what the instructor's attitude is going to be until saying something to the instructor. Most instructors wouldn't act the way that this one did.
  6. by   BSNtobe2009
    Hey, not to change the subject, but here is an extreme example of how people just don't want to get involved and it made my physically ill.

    Anyone live in Florida and hear about the boat that sank and they just retrieved the bodies of an 8-year-old and 2-year-old-baby off the boat...dead?

    Well, I just listened to the 911 call that was on local6.com - Home. The husband escaped the boat first with is 3 MONTH OLD baby...was standing, baby naked, at a fence, screaming at houses for someone to help him...one resident called 911 and say there was a man standing with a small naked baby and was screaming for help...said something about a boat sinking in deep water...the 911 operator said, "Do you know if anyone is still on the boat?" The caller said, "No, I don't know." The 911 operator said, "Well, can you go ASK HIM!". So you hear this woman yell out the window to ask and and you can hear the man say his 8 year old and 2 year old were on the boat and sank with it. You hear the 911 Operator call out to someone to send an ambulance and search team. Now HERE is the kicker.

    THE STUPID WOMAN THAT CALLED 911 SAID, "Oh, when you send the ambulance out here, tell them not to turn on their siren's because I just got my kids to sleep and don't want to wake them up!"

    She was more concerned about her kids getting woke up than a man that just lost half his family to drowning.

    THAT is the problem with American folks...

    ...to add...just this week, at night on a busy road, I watched no less than 50 to 100 cars pass by a horribly ditched truck...I stopped to make sure no one was inside it, and it was empty....what if there was a child inside? What if someone was hurt? I did this same thing about 8 years ago...I looked in to see the hood pulled down over this man's head, and his hands curled under, and he couldn't speak...again, busy road, ditched car...no one stopped...I refused to leave him until the ambulance got there and kept talking to him.

    People need to fix what is wrong when the opportunity presents itself!
  7. by   Daytonite
    I hear ya. There's something wrong with the thinking and priorities of a good many people these days. Sad, isn't it. Kind of makes me wonder what it will lead to in 50 years when I'm dead and gone.
  8. by   eltrip
    Quote from reebok
    I'm sorry to here about your financial difficulties. You stated that you dont believe that anyones on a high horse but right after that statement you put You live by a different standard than I. (huh, could that be PRIDE)

    How were you able to live by a different standard than I? Was it a personal choice? Before you were $40K in debt, how was your child hood? Did your parents guide you in the right direction? Are did you grow up moving from foster home to group home, being abused, misguided?

    Everyone doesnt have the luxury of having parents to instill values in them. A child that's been abused and poverished may come to look at the world as every man for himself. Simply just trying to survive. That doesn't mean they lack ethical values for cheating on a test. They may see the professor's attitude and say well if he doesnt care why should I. Im gone make sure i study in nursing school though.
    Okay, Reebok, I've been reading through this thread. Give me a break, man! Paragraphs 2 & 3 are hogwash. I was one of the many nurses on this BB who grew up abused and impoverished. I, too spent time in foster homes. I was misguided by many, moving from state to state over the years. Bottom line, though, I made a choice. I saw how the "every man for himself" philosophy didn't work. I chose to behave ethically. I chose to educate myself. I continue to choose to behave ethically. And yes, I do my report my mistakes - it's a matter of patient safety! I'd rather get "called on the carpet" about a problem I'd caused rather than lose my license for not looking out for my patients & causing one to die.

    A student who cheats in prerequisite classes will frequently fail out of the nursing program. This amounts to a waste of time, energy & money. If this person does make it through the program, he/she is at greater risk for failing their board exam, another waster of time, energy & money. When this person passes the board exam, you will see this person exit nursing quickly because of the difficulty of the work and/or incompetence.

    I turned in a fellow student while in nursing school. He copied the work our group had created (his own group had kicked him out). As a group, we went to the faculty member (who was also head of the program). He had the attitude that he'd had a hard life & we should help him out. We suggested the bootstrap method. He was allowed to continue, graduate & pass the boards. He didn't stay in nursing long & was a poor nurse until he left the field.

    And that's why we don't tolerate cheaters.
  9. by   hogan4736
    Quote from bethin
    ...A med error can occur for a number of reasons: unable to read MD's handwriting, putting wrong info in computer, pharmacy mistake, etc.
    This caught my eye...

    None of these should explain a med error...It's ALWAYS an error of the nurse, period.

    If you can't read his writing, call and ask him...
    If you believe a MAR (blindly) without checking the orders, you are careless...
    If you put your (blind) faith in the pharmacy, you are careless as well...

    Just my .02


    I cheated on my final engineering chemistry test, 21 years ago, just to squeak out a D in the class...

    I made a med error as a new grad RN and reported it...


    Hmmmm

    Not that I agree w/ Reebok at all, but just because you cheat on a test, it does NOT make you a bad nurse (or person for that matter)...
  10. by   kenny b
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    THAT is the problem with American folks...
    EASY with the "American folks" comments there. I don't know where the land of the blue is, but I do know this. Americans come from all over and we're all very different. I'm a proud American who respects other cultures and I have helped (and been helped by) many Americans. In many cases it cost me a ton of time and effort and resources and in many cases those who helped me expended much of the same.

    I'm pretty sure you didn't mean all Americans and I'm okay with that, but it is still perhaps somewhat cavalier to say even the majority of Americans. Americans are some of the most generous people in the world and the data supports that.

    In addition, there is a safety issue involved here. There are those who have faked accidents to rob, murder, rape, or what-have-you. Many people are well aware of this and many of them have children who depend on them for their well-being. Lots of those people (including me) figure it's not worth the risk to their children to help a stranger. I stopped stopping when I got married and had children. I'll call for help for people, or ask if they need it (from a distance).

    Anyway, not trying to be confrontational here. I just wanted to point out that you may have been a little hasty and perhaps did not represent yourself the way you intended.
  11. by   hogan4736
    I think she meant to say "That's what's wrong w/ America, folks"

    That's the sense I got from the post...
  12. by   txspadequeenRN
    LOL , I agree cause if he is dropping fully aware he is doing it then I consider it a donation.



    Quote from gr8rnpjt
    Um, could you share the name and address of the school, and is this particular Dean still randomly dropping $100 bills around campus?
  13. by   kenny b
    Quote from hogan4736
    I think she meant to say "That's what's wrong w/ America, folks"

    That's the sense I got from the post...
    Could be, but my comments still stand. As I said, I give her every benefit of the doubt with respect to how she meant to represent herself. The point is that there are legitemate reasons for not stopping to help someone. Also, there are lots of problems in lots of countries and we don't know what they'd be like if they were in America's position. Finally, I think there is a lot right in America today too.

    And add my name to the list of folks who didn't have it so good growing up, but still made the right choice.

    When my mother finally threw my worthless, abusive father out, we were 7 months behind with the mortgage and she made about $7k that year.

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