Curious about how to handle this situation..

RNfaster · Sep 30, 2013

So if a kid hands you a bag of meds that his mom said to give you, you would not look at them? How would you give the kid his medicine? I only looked at the meds in the first place to see if I knew the kid or the mom, because if I had, I would have seen if a friend at camp (45 min away) had the same med that could be given to keep my husband from having to drive back up there at 11:00 at night. I didn't know the mom, so he made the drive... If I had known her, I'd have called her and asked if it was ok to give her kid my dd's meds she had with her.
I don't believe my "looking at" the med was wrong. When I saw them, I immediately thought about my husband's responsibility... Not unreasonable at all.

I would hope the camp has some policies regarding handling this, and perhaps some documentation that parents must sign in order to protect the camp and its employees. --Without such policies and documentation, I would worry about liability of the camp and the individuals handing out the medication. Further, I would think that it would be important to ensure such individuals have some training... Maybe now is the time for some camp nurses to tell us how this works.

wheeliesurfer · Sep 30, 2013

I would hope that the campground that your church is utilizing and/or the church are supplying a nurse to provide medical coverage for this sleep away camp. If I were your husband I would not feel comfortable dispensing medication to campers that are OTC and not on the recommended dosage of a healthcare provider. Even if the OTC meds came with a written Rx from the HCP I would be more comfortable handing the OTC's over to the camp nurse for q HS dispensing after dinner/before bed or as ordered. Seeing as your husband has no known medical training and is not taught what med is for what, what the potential side effects are and how to recognize them, I would be VERY cautious about handing out anything. If you look at good samaritan laws, they do not cover medication administration in any form except for possibly low dose aspirin in the case of a suspected heart attack. I would not want to risk a lawsuit if something were to happen to the child during camp because of the med administration and the mom, dad or another party decided to file a lawsuit against your husband because a reasonable/prudent person does not just hand out medication, even at the written direction of the parent, in my opinion. I would put the responsibility on the camp nurse, which is what they are there for during the duration of camp.

chrisrn24 · Sep 30, 2013

This is not a HIPAA violation.

If I am at work and someone I know comes in, I can't go home and tell my family "hey guess who was at work today?"

If I'm at a medical clinic for a physical for myself, not on work property, not on a clock and I see someone I know I can go home and say "hey guess who I saw at the clinic? Mrs. Johnson down the street."

OP is a student. This is in her own home. The only she is guilty of is being a snoop which is not a big deal!

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Sep 30, 2013

I'm a student nurse and this is just a "what would you do" question.
My husband went to a church camp this weekend and was a cabin leader for 15 ten year olds. There is no formal med policy at this camp, it's pretty casual.
A kid (who he didn't know) handed him a bag of meds with instructions from his mom and said "mom said to give this to the cabin leader". So dh took the meds and put them in his bag. He ended up coming home the second night and accidently brought the kid's meds home with him, before he left to take them back I looked and noticed what they were.
2x zyrtec
2x benadryl
2x ibuprofen
to be given each night. I told dh those were double the dose for a 10yo and I wouldn't give that kid those meds at those doses if I were him. I didn't attend the camp, but it got me wondering what would I do if I did? He just gave the meds to the cabin leader that replaced him.
What are a "real nurse's" responsibilities at a casual event like this? Would you intervene or do you feel it's none of your business if you weren't the one supposed to give him his pills? Am I just a jumpy nursing student and there isn't anything wrong with the doses she sent? I'm very curious how you seasoned nurses would handle it. :)

And just so you are aware, OP and your future nursing practice--

1. IF a camp is "casual" and has no medical policy/procedure/guidelines, then in fact there should be no meds given at the camp.

2. Medications are based on KG weight, and not age. So to say that the meds were "double the dose" is incorrect.

3. Don't go searching for issues. In your future practice, it pays to be mindful--but not stirring a pot.

Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2013

So this camp has no medication administration policy and no medically trained personnel on site? This is a huge liability, and if I were your husband, I'd have nothing to do with it.

Who is doing background checks on "cabin leaders" to make sure they're not sex offenders?

As far as snooping into the medications, that was really none of your business. It's no different than snooping in someone's medicine cabinet when they have you over for dinner.

It's too bad your husband had to drive the meds back, but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Ack_RN · Sep 30, 2013

I volunteered at a summer camp last year, I'd say it was pretty "casual" too. Parents filled out a form when they dropped their kid off if any meds were to be given. Wasnt anything fancy, but gave us the when and why. They were all prescription, so that helped ease my mind!

There was one insulin dependent diabetic.... that made me nervous to say the least! :)

As for your situation, did the camp leader have a list of all the parent's phone numbers? I would have given her a call if I was the counselor for her child. Just double check. (Maybe not at 2300 though... probably give someone a heart attack!)

MilliePieRN · Sep 30, 2013

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. It has given me a lot to think about. I'm really not interested in ever going to camp myself or becoming involved in its policies or decisions (even though I see that more structure is needed). If dh goes back, I'll tell him I'd rather him not have anything to do with someone else's meds. Easy peasy.

I was wrong to speculate on the appropriateness of those meds since I was not involved in the situation. Any further thoughts about it would just be guessing. My main question pertaining to what responsibility someone may have in dh's (or a nurse's) situation has been touched upon; not sure what liability someone would have, but it's better to not take the chance.

Thanks for your thoughts :)

Ruby Vee, BSN · Sep 30, 2013

If I was not a nurse, just an adult along to supervise a church camp outing, I would call the mom and clarify the drugs, dose, when and why to give the meds. I would feel better if there were some one in charge I could refer to or some written policy about kids needing meds.
As a nurse I would be even more concerned giving meds as my license would be "on the line." I would not go as a "nurse" unless it was clear to all parents, the church leaders, etc., that I was there as an adult helper/supervisor NOT as a nurse.
The doses are probably fine for that child....but thank goodness for cell phones, just takes a phone call to confirm.

Even if you were there NOT as a nurse but just as a helper, you are still a nurse. You could be held responsible for giving the kid too much medication.

NutmeggeRN, BSN · Sep 30, 2013

So in a non-healthcare setting, with non-medical personnel, hipaa laws apply?

Not HIPAA per the letter of the law but basic confidentiality.

merlee · Sep 30, 2013

I could understand looking at the meds to see if they were something that the child had to have that night, ie, antibiotics, something for an ongoing problem, etc. and needed to be returned right away.

I was a camp nurse for a few summers; although HIPAA doesn't apply, there are some basic respect issues. We didn't advertise which kids were on ADD meds (although everyone seemed to know, anyway) or those that were on meds to help with bedwetting. But the kids usually told their friends, anyway.

Every camp needs a basic med policy, and a form for parents to sign, same as the schools do. I have seen plenty of schools where the secretaries dole out the meds!

But checking out the doses probably wasn't necessary.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2013

I'm a student nurse and this is just a "what would you do" question.
My husband went to a church camp this weekend and was a cabin leader for 15 ten year olds. There is no formal med policy at this camp, it's pretty casual.
A kid (who he didn't know) handed him a bag of meds with instructions from his mom and said "mom said to give this to the cabin leader". So dh took the meds and put them in his bag. He ended up coming home the second night and accidently brought the kid's meds home with him, before he left to take them back I looked and noticed what they were.
2x zyrtec
2x benadryl
2x ibuprofen
to be given each night. I told dh those were double the dose for a 10yo and I wouldn't give that kid those meds at those doses if I were him. I didn't attend the camp, but it got me wondering what would I do if I did? He just gave the meds to the cabin leader that replaced him.
What are a "real nurse's" responsibilities at a casual event like this? Would you intervene or do you feel it's none of your business if you weren't the one supposed to give him his pills? Am I just a jumpy nursing student and there isn't anything wrong with the doses she sent? I'm very curious how you seasoned nurses would handle it. :)

Depending on the kids weight....Standard doses

Ibuprofen is 5mg/kg

Benadryl 1-2mg/kg

Zyrtec 0.25mg/kg BID

As a nurse, if I was the overnight Mom I would have the meds given by another camp counselor.....let the person in charge of the camp give the meds.

Altra, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2013

Not HIPAA per the letter of the law but basic confidentiality.

There are no "confidentiality" requirements imposed on the general public. The general public are free to share or not share, as they see fit.