Can Someone Be a Nurse Without Jean Watson?? - page 21

Ok now, as I delve back INTO nursing philosophy and theories, I come across, again, the theories of Jean Watson that have been hailed as the greatest thing since polyurethane IV bags - The Caring... Read More

  1. by   BETSRN
    Quote from Q.
    Ok now, as I delve back INTO nursing philosophy and theories, I come across, again, the theories of Jean Watson that have been hailed as the greatest thing since polyurethane IV bags - The Caring Theory of Nursing.

    Personally, I have never been a fan of Watson, only because I feel that she OVERemphasized the caring aspect, and, in my opinion, dumbified nursing - hence, the ad campaign in the late 80's "If Caring Were Enough, Anyone Could Be a Nurse." Watson threw a fit when she saw this.

    As nursing evolves to a more technically challenging field, requiring more acute assessment skills, and as the
    "How Women Know" movement which has shaped nursing education for the last decade or so has become archaic, wondering what your thoughts are on if someone can be a nurse and NOT subscribe to the caring theory. Can one be a competent nurse and NOT care about her patients any more deeply than simply getting the job done?

    Watson's theory goes a bit deeper than simply "caring" - more so than "caring" about any other job. But "caring" as far as honestly caring about the patient as you would your mom or dad.

    Do you think someone CAN be an effective nurse WITHOUT having so much an emphasis on loving her patients?
    Are you referring to Jeanne Watson Driscoll?
  2. by   chattypattyCRNA2B
    When I was 20 and an unwed mother, I was admitted to a local hospital to give birth to my first child. Although I was scared I was not one of those women who screamed out during their contractions or anything like that....(one main reason was because I was embarrassed and my mom who I had let down was right there with me ). I was the perfect trooper! After I had given birth a nurse came in to give me a catheter. I guess I wasn't holding my legs open enough because the nurse yanked (yes, yanked) my legs open and gave me this look like...."YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS BEFORE SO OPEN YOUR D*MN LEGS!" she didn't say that but her look and actions were such that you could have interpreted it that way. This hospital is a learning facility and most unwed mothers on medicaid go there to have their children.


    So yeah, nurses don't have to give a rat's behind about you.....
  3. by   sunnyjohn
    Quote from chattypattyCRNA2B
    When I was 20 and an unwed mother, I was admitted to a local hospital to give birth to my first child. Although I was scared I was not one of those women who screamed out during their contractions or anything like that....(one main reason was because I was embarrassed and my mom who I had let down was right there with me ). I was the perfect trooper! After I had given birth a nurse came in to give me a catheter. I guess I wasn't holding my legs open enough because the nurse yanked (yes, yanked) my legs open and gave me this look like...."YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS BEFORE SO OPEN YOUR D*MN LEGS!" she didn't say that but her look and actions were such that you could have interpreted it that way. This hospital is a learning facility and most unwed mothers on medicaid go there to have their children.


    So yeah, nurses don't have to give a rat's behind about you.....
    YANKED!! OMG! That's abuse!

    I may not be the most "touchy feely dare-to-care person", But I sure wouldn't abuse someone.
  4. by   UM Review RN
    Quote from chattypattyCRNA2B
    When I was 20 and an unwed mother, I was admitted to a local hospital to give birth to my first child. Although I was scared I was not one of those women who screamed out during their contractions or anything like that....(one main reason was because I was embarrassed and my mom who I had let down was right there with me ). I was the perfect trooper! After I had given birth a nurse came in to give me a catheter. I guess I wasn't holding my legs open enough because the nurse yanked (yes, yanked) my legs open and gave me this look like...."YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS BEFORE SO OPEN YOUR D*MN LEGS!" she didn't say that but her look and actions were such that you could have interpreted it that way. This hospital is a learning facility and most unwed mothers on medicaid go there to have their children.


    So yeah, nurses don't have to give a rat's behind about you.....

    I think that the OP's point is that professionalism includes "caring behaviors" such as trustworthiness, respect, courtesy, and dignity to the patients as well as a technical expertise, experience, and education.

    I would say that you did not have a very good nurse that time. She should've asked you and if you didn't respond appropriately, the next step would have been to clarify the request, since you might not have understood.

    I'm sorry you had that experience, and I hope you will speak up if ever there's a next time, so that you are treated with the respect and dignity that every patient deserves.
  5. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from mercyteapot
    My post merely followed your's, it wasn't referencing it. There was a specific allegation made in another post that "other professionals" don't consider nurses professionals. I don't buy it.
    On that, we can agree!
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from Tweety
    Nursing has been striving to separate itself from medicine as being a science and profession unto itself, separate from the control and supervision of MD's. That's not an inferiority complex IMO. The problem is the definition leaves out LPNs and ADNs in their definition in what is professional and that's a siginificant portion of the "profession".

    e).
    See, that is the problem. As of this date, we are unable to even agree what a "professional" is.

    I am still wondering what the theorists of pharmacy, OT, PT and others have to say of their "professions".

    I get what they are trying to do (the theorists), but I don't buy into it. It's much like our NANDA nomenclature system----nursing trying desperately to "come into its own". I see the "why's" behind the various theories, but can't apply them in my practice as an RN, and I doubt I ever will.
  7. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    So what theorists/theories guide the "true" professions of Physical therapy, Occupational therapy, Audiology, Pharmacy, Medicine, Dentistry, and others? Do they sit and argue which theorist/theory that is the "right one" all day long in school?

    I just am curious.

    Because if we are to define ourselves as professionals by having theories and theorists to hold to, I want to know what the others are doing, since they have already been ordained "true professions" by so many.

    I thought everyone was saying we can't be considered a "true profession" due to our lower entrance point to nursing (ADN/LPN, not baccalaureate).

    This is the first time I have heard anyone mention we may not be viewed as professionals because many of us don't care to argue about theorists/theories in nursing.
    I believe that other health care professions aalready went thru the pains that we have continued to go thru for the past forty years. Other professions, medical, PT, OT have improved on their basic entry level, while we, nursing have continued to agure over the three basic entry levels for professional nursing. They have settled their differences, continued to develop their theories of practice and impart their wisdom. We continue to disagree over the need for nursing theory, let alone agreeing to include the importance of theory.

    You are a prime example, in your contention that this is the first time you have heard of the problem of nursing theory. Sorry, I have been a nurse since 1967. And have been aware of nursing theorists since starting my education in 1964. Or perhaps, you are unaware of the fact that Nightengale is considered one of the first nursing theorists?

    We are not a profession but a group of multi-entry level techs, whoi claim to be a profession. Sorry, but that is my take on the situation.

    Grannynurse
  8. by   tridil2000
    Quote from grannynurseFNP
    I believe that other health care professions aalready went thru the pains that we have continued to go thru for the past forty years. Other professions, medical, PT, OT have improved on their basic entry level, while we, nursing have continued to agure over the three basic entry levels for professional nursing. They have settled their differences, continued to develop their theories of practice and impart their wisdom. We continue to disagree over the need for nursing theory, let alone agreeing to include the importance of theory.

    You are a prime example, in your contention that this is the first time you have heard of the problem of nursing theory. Sorry, I have been a nurse since 1967. And have been aware of nursing theorists since starting my education in 1964. Or perhaps, you are unaware of the fact that Nightengale is considered one of the first nursing theorists?

    We are not a profession but a group of multi-entry level techs, whoi claim to be a profession. Sorry, but that is my take on the situation.

    Grannynurse
    Like physicians who go thru residency, RNs should do the same, imo. Any new grad, be it from an ADN program or a BSN program, should be an RN- intern for a year. After a year, if the ADN RN is not enrolled in a BSN program, they should remain interns.

    I strongly believe that BSN should be our standard. I support ADN nurses, I was one myself, but I think we really need to unify our college education like every other field.

    We should of course grandfather our ADN RNs now, but we need to get something like this in place someday.

    ...And to use the shortage of nurses is just an excuse.

    JUST my opinion....
  9. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from tridil2000
    Like physicians who go thru residency, RNs should do the same, imo. Any new grad, be it from an ADN program or a BSN program, should be an RN- intern for a year. After a year, if the ADN RN is not enrolled in a BSN program, they should remain interns.

    I strongly believe that BSN should be our standard. I support ADN nurses, I was one myself, but I think we really need to unify our college education like every other field.

    We should of course grandfather our ADN RNs now, but we need to get something like this in place someday.

    ...And to use the shortage of nurses is just an excuse.

    JUST my opinion....
    +-
    Unfortunately, grandfathering AD nurses, of which I am also a graduate, is met with opposition from the very providers of that level of education. Turftom is the major key to their fight and opposition to making only one entry level for professional nursing. Perhaps, in another fifty years, we will learn our lesson.

    Grannynurse
  10. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from grannynurseFNP
    I believe that other health care professions aalready went thru the pains that we have continued to go thru for the past forty years. Other professions, medical, PT, OT have improved on their basic entry level, while we, nursing have continued to agure over the three basic entry levels for professional nursing. They have settled their differences, continued to develop their theories of practice and impart their wisdom. We continue to disagree over the need for nursing theory, let alone agreeing to include the importance of theory.

    You are a prime example, in your contention that this is the first time you have heard of the problem of nursing theory. Sorry, I have been a nurse since 1967. And have been aware of nursing theorists since starting my education in 1964. Or perhaps, you are unaware of the fact that Nightengale is considered one of the first nursing theorists?

    We are not a profession but a group of multi-entry level techs, whoi claim to be a profession. Sorry, but that is my take on the situation.

    Grannynurse
    Excuse me, but apparently, you misunderstood. I did not at any time say I was unaware of nursing theory and theorists. I am saying why are they so important to our recognition as a profession? Heck, we can't even agree which one is right, or which theories even at all apply. Then, there is the perennial BSN, versus ADN versus Diploma (not to mention, LPN) point of entry argument.

    So many (including the ANA) say the downfall of nursing ever coming into its own as a profession stems from the multiple entry-points, particularly referring to ADN and LPN practice/levels of nursing. Funny, last I checked, the ANA was very happy to take my check and cash it for membership, even as a lowly ADN nurse. I don't feel I have been represented for the money I spent, frankly. But that is surely another thread.

    I think we have yet to define who we are.....and yes, nursing theory has a lot to do with defining us. But I think it's more than that. And I don't think arguing theory will in the end, earn us the respect as a profession we so desire. Am I making sense? I hope so. I think part of the problem is nursing is too diverse for anyone one (or two) theories to accurately and complete define us as a profession.

    Did they at any point, argue theorists and theory in their fight to be a profession in the areas of pharmacy, physical therapy or the others????

    Again, I say nursing is very unique and diverse---it's a double-edge sword.

    and, You can't apply just ONE theory and even begin to cover us all. I define nursing as a profession, no matter what the ANA or others have to say about us.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Jul 15, '05
  11. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Excuse me, but apparently, you misunderstood. I did not at any time say I was unaware of nursing theory and theorists. I am saying why are they so important to our recognition as a profession? Heck, we can't even agree which one is right, or which theories even at all apply. Then, there is the perennial BSN, versus ADN versus Diploma (not to mention, LPN) point of entry argument.

    So many (including the ANA) say the downfall of nursing ever coming into its own as a profession stems from the multiple entry-points, particularly referring to ADN and LPN practice/levels of nursing. Funny, last I checked, the ANA was very happy to take my check and cash it for membership, even as a lowly ADN nurse. I don't feel I have been represented for the money I spent, frankly. But that is surely another thread.

    I think we have yet to define who we are.....and yes, nursing theory has a lot to do with defining us. But I think it's more than that. And I don't think arguing theory will in the end, earn us the respect as a profession we so desire. Am I making sense? I hope so. I think part of the problem is nursing is too diverse for anyone one (or two) theories to accurately and complete define us as a profession.

    Did they at any point, argue theorists and theory in their fight to be a profession in the areas of pharmacy, physical therapy or the others????

    Again, I say nursing is very unique and diverse---it's a double-edge sword.

    and, You can't apply just ONE theory and even begin to cover us all. I define nursing as a profession, no matter what the ANA or others have to say about us.
    You are entitled to your opinion, that nursing is a profession. I am just shariing, that as a former diploma school student, a assoicate degree graduate, a BSN graduate, that until we have ONE UNIFORM ENTRY level, like the other health care professions, we will, rightly so, be viewed with a juandiced eye by other health care professionals. Professional is a combination of entry level education, theory, and practice. To dismiss one is an unnecessary encomperence is to diminish the others.

    The fact that there are numerous nursing theorists does not, in my opinion, confuse or diminish nursing theory, it expands it. There are numerous scientific theorist, in numerous fields. While other professions discuss among themselves their own theorists, I am unaware of any who show the disregard many nurses do, to ours. Of course, this is only my opinion.

    Grannynurse
  12. by   fab4fan
    SimilingBlueEyes wrote:


    So many (including the ANA) say the downfall of nursing ever coming into its own as a profession stems from the multiple entry-points, particularly referring to ADN and LPN practice/levels of nursing. Funny, last I checked, the ANA was very happy to take my check and cash it for membership, even as a lowly ADN nurse. I don't feel I have been represented for the money I spent, frankly. But that is surely another thread.
    Ironic, ain't it? Here's how I feel about the ANA and their "position":

    "Hey you, you loser diploma/ADN...you're not a professional and you are dragging down the nursing profession by your very existence!"

    "By the way, won't you please join us? Please send your check/credit card number/firstborn to support our causes and make your voice heard."

    <calls ANA after foolishly sending $$, despite being a diploma/ADN>

    "Hello, and welcome to the ANA. If you have a BSN degree or higher, press 1. If you are a diploma/ADN, hang up immediately. We don't care what you think."
  13. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from fab4fan
    SimilingBlueEyes wrote:




    Ironic, ain't it? Here's how I feel about the ANA and their "position":

    "Hey you, you loser diploma/ADN...you're not a professional and you are dragging down the nursing profession by your very existence!"

    "By the way, won't you please join us? Please send your check/credit card number/firstborn to support our causes and make your voice heard."

    <calls ANA after foolishly sending $$, despite being a diploma/ADN>

    "Hello, and welcome to the ANA. If you have a BSN degree or higher, press 1. If you are a diploma/ADN, hang up immediately. We don't care what you think."
    The content of these posts clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding and knowledge as to what makes up a professional education and what makes up a technical one. And to lay the blame on the ANA demonstrates a lack of understanding as to what and who is a professional. To be perfectly honest, an AD and diploma graduate are clearly technical nurses. And I feel free to say this, having completed 28 months of a diploma program and having graduated from an associate degree program. And, had I had the funds, I would have gone for my BSN rather then the associate. Blame who you wish. You will still never be viewed as a professional by other health care professionals, who education standards are higher then ours. And who have only one entry level.

    Grannynurse

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