Can Someone Be a Nurse Without Jean Watson??

Nurses General Nursing

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Ok now, as I delve back INTO nursing philosophy and theories, I come across, again, the theories of Jean Watson that have been hailed as the greatest thing since polyurethane IV bags - The Caring Theory of Nursing.

Personally, I have never been a fan of Watson, only because I feel that she OVERemphasized the caring aspect, and, in my opinion, dumbified nursing - hence, the ad campaign in the late 80's "If Caring Were Enough, Anyone Could Be a Nurse." Watson threw a fit when she saw this.

As nursing evolves to a more technically challenging field, requiring more acute assessment skills, and as the

"How Women Know" movement which has shaped nursing education for the last decade or so has become archaic, wondering what your thoughts are on if someone can be a nurse and NOT subscribe to the caring theory. Can one be a competent nurse and NOT care about her patients any more deeply than simply getting the job done?

Watson's theory goes a bit deeper than simply "caring" - more so than "caring" about any other job. But "caring" as far as honestly caring about the patient as you would your mom or dad.

Do you think someone CAN be an effective nurse WITHOUT having so much an emphasis on loving her patients?

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
My post merely followed your's, it wasn't referencing it. There was a specific allegation made in another post that "other professionals" don't consider nurses professionals. I don't buy it.
On that, we can agree! :)
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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Nursing has been striving to separate itself from medicine as being a science and profession unto itself, separate from the control and supervision of MD's. That's not an inferiority complex IMO. The problem is the definition leaves out LPNs and ADNs in their definition in what is professional and that's a siginificant portion of the "profession".

e).

See, that is the problem. As of this date, we are unable to even agree what a "professional" is.

I am still wondering what the theorists of pharmacy, OT, PT and others have to say of their "professions".

I get what they are trying to do (the theorists), but I don't buy into it. It's much like our NANDA nomenclature system----nursing trying desperately to "come into its own". I see the "why's" behind the various theories, but can't apply them in my practice as an RN, and I doubt I ever will.

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So what theorists/theories guide the "true" professions of Physical therapy, Occupational therapy, Audiology, Pharmacy, Medicine, Dentistry, and others? Do they sit and argue which theorist/theory that is the "right one" all day long in school?

I just am curious.

Because if we are to define ourselves as professionals by having theories and theorists to hold to, I want to know what the others are doing, since they have already been ordained "true professions" by so many.

I thought everyone was saying we can't be considered a "true profession" due to our lower entrance point to nursing (ADN/LPN, not baccalaureate).

This is the first time I have heard anyone mention we may not be viewed as professionals because many of us don't care to argue about theorists/theories in nursing.

I believe that other health care professions aalready went thru the pains that we have continued to go thru for the past forty years. Other professions, medical, PT, OT have improved on their basic entry level, while we, nursing have continued to agure over the three basic entry levels for professional nursing. They have settled their differences, continued to develop their theories of practice and impart their wisdom. We continue to disagree over the need for nursing theory, let alone agreeing to include the importance of theory.

You are a prime example, in your contention that this is the first time you have heard of the problem of nursing theory. Sorry, I have been a nurse since 1967. And have been aware of nursing theorists since starting my education in 1964. Or perhaps, you are unaware of the fact that Nightengale is considered one of the first nursing theorists?

We are not a profession but a group of multi-entry level techs, whoi claim to be a profession. Sorry, but that is my take on the situation.

Grannynurse :balloons:

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I believe that other health care professions aalready went thru the pains that we have continued to go thru for the past forty years. Other professions, medical, PT, OT have improved on their basic entry level, while we, nursing have continued to agure over the three basic entry levels for professional nursing. They have settled their differences, continued to develop their theories of practice and impart their wisdom. We continue to disagree over the need for nursing theory, let alone agreeing to include the importance of theory.

You are a prime example, in your contention that this is the first time you have heard of the problem of nursing theory. Sorry, I have been a nurse since 1967. And have been aware of nursing theorists since starting my education in 1964. Or perhaps, you are unaware of the fact that Nightengale is considered one of the first nursing theorists?

We are not a profession but a group of multi-entry level techs, whoi claim to be a profession. Sorry, but that is my take on the situation.

Grannynurse :balloons:

Like physicians who go thru residency, RNs should do the same, imo. Any new grad, be it from an ADN program or a BSN program, should be an RN- intern for a year. After a year, if the ADN RN is not enrolled in a BSN program, they should remain interns.

I strongly believe that BSN should be our standard. I support ADN nurses, I was one myself, but I think we really need to unify our college education like every other field.

We should of course grandfather our ADN RNs now, but we need to get something like this in place someday.

...And to use the shortage of nurses is just an excuse.

JUST my opinion....

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Like physicians who go thru residency, RNs should do the same, imo. Any new grad, be it from an ADN program or a BSN program, should be an RN- intern for a year. After a year, if the ADN RN is not enrolled in a BSN program, they should remain interns.

I strongly believe that BSN should be our standard. I support ADN nurses, I was one myself, but I think we really need to unify our college education like every other field.

We should of course grandfather our ADN RNs now, but we need to get something like this in place someday.

...And to use the shortage of nurses is just an excuse.

JUST my opinion....

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Unfortunately, grandfathering AD nurses, of which I am also a graduate, is met with opposition from the very providers of that level of education. Turftom is the major key to their fight and opposition to making only one entry level for professional nursing. Perhaps, in another fifty years, we will learn our lesson.

Grannynurse :balloons:

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I believe that other health care professions aalready went thru the pains that we have continued to go thru for the past forty years. Other professions, medical, PT, OT have improved on their basic entry level, while we, nursing have continued to agure over the three basic entry levels for professional nursing. They have settled their differences, continued to develop their theories of practice and impart their wisdom. We continue to disagree over the need for nursing theory, let alone agreeing to include the importance of theory.

You are a prime example, in your contention that this is the first time you have heard of the problem of nursing theory. Sorry, I have been a nurse since 1967. And have been aware of nursing theorists since starting my education in 1964. Or perhaps, you are unaware of the fact that Nightengale is considered one of the first nursing theorists?

We are not a profession but a group of multi-entry level techs, whoi claim to be a profession. Sorry, but that is my take on the situation.

Grannynurse :balloons:

Excuse me, but apparently, you misunderstood. I did not at any time say I was unaware of nursing theory and theorists. I am saying why are they so important to our recognition as a profession? Heck, we can't even agree which one is right, or which theories even at all apply. Then, there is the perennial BSN, versus ADN versus Diploma (not to mention, LPN) point of entry argument.

So many (including the ANA) say the downfall of nursing ever coming into its own as a profession stems from the multiple entry-points, particularly referring to ADN and LPN practice/levels of nursing. Funny, last I checked, the ANA was very happy to take my check and cash it for membership, even as a lowly ADN nurse. I don't feel I have been represented for the money I spent, frankly. But that is surely another thread.

I think we have yet to define who we are.....and yes, nursing theory has a lot to do with defining us. But I think it's more than that. And I don't think arguing theory will in the end, earn us the respect as a profession we so desire. Am I making sense? I hope so. I think part of the problem is nursing is too diverse for anyone one (or two) theories to accurately and complete define us as a profession.

Did they at any point, argue theorists and theory in their fight to be a profession in the areas of pharmacy, physical therapy or the others????

Again, I say nursing is very unique and diverse---it's a double-edge sword.

and, You can't apply just ONE theory and even begin to cover us all. I define nursing as a profession, no matter what the ANA or others have to say about us.

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Excuse me, but apparently, you misunderstood. I did not at any time say I was unaware of nursing theory and theorists. I am saying why are they so important to our recognition as a profession? Heck, we can't even agree which one is right, or which theories even at all apply. Then, there is the perennial BSN, versus ADN versus Diploma (not to mention, LPN) point of entry argument.

So many (including the ANA) say the downfall of nursing ever coming into its own as a profession stems from the multiple entry-points, particularly referring to ADN and LPN practice/levels of nursing. Funny, last I checked, the ANA was very happy to take my check and cash it for membership, even as a lowly ADN nurse. I don't feel I have been represented for the money I spent, frankly. But that is surely another thread.

I think we have yet to define who we are.....and yes, nursing theory has a lot to do with defining us. But I think it's more than that. And I don't think arguing theory will in the end, earn us the respect as a profession we so desire. Am I making sense? I hope so. I think part of the problem is nursing is too diverse for anyone one (or two) theories to accurately and complete define us as a profession.

Did they at any point, argue theorists and theory in their fight to be a profession in the areas of pharmacy, physical therapy or the others????

Again, I say nursing is very unique and diverse---it's a double-edge sword.

and, You can't apply just ONE theory and even begin to cover us all. I define nursing as a profession, no matter what the ANA or others have to say about us.

You are entitled to your opinion, that nursing is a profession. I am just shariing, that as a former diploma school student, a assoicate degree graduate, a BSN graduate, that until we have ONE UNIFORM ENTRY level, like the other health care professions, we will, rightly so, be viewed with a juandiced eye by other health care professionals. Professional is a combination of entry level education, theory, and practice. To dismiss one is an unnecessary encomperence is to diminish the others.

The fact that there are numerous nursing theorists does not, in my opinion, confuse or diminish nursing theory, it expands it. There are numerous scientific theorist, in numerous fields. While other professions discuss among themselves their own theorists, I am unaware of any who show the disregard many nurses do, to ours. Of course, this is only my opinion.

Grannynurse :balloons:

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SimilingBlueEyes wrote:

So many (including the ANA) say the downfall of nursing ever coming into its own as a profession stems from the multiple entry-points, particularly referring to ADN and LPN practice/levels of nursing. Funny, last I checked, the ANA was very happy to take my check and cash it for membership, even as a lowly ADN nurse. I don't feel I have been represented for the money I spent, frankly. But that is surely another thread.

Ironic, ain't it? Here's how I feel about the ANA and their "position":

"Hey you, you loser diploma/ADN...you're not a professional and you are dragging down the nursing profession by your very existence!"

"By the way, won't you please join us? Please send your check/credit card number/firstborn to support our causes and make your voice heard."

"Hello, and welcome to the ANA. If you have a BSN degree or higher, press 1. If you are a diploma/ADN, hang up immediately. We don't care what you think."

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SimilingBlueEyes wrote:

Ironic, ain't it? Here's how I feel about the ANA and their "position":

"Hey you, you loser diploma/ADN...you're not a professional and you are dragging down the nursing profession by your very existence!"

"By the way, won't you please join us? Please send your check/credit card number/firstborn to support our causes and make your voice heard."

"Hello, and welcome to the ANA. If you have a BSN degree or higher, press 1. If you are a diploma/ADN, hang up immediately. We don't care what you think."

The content of these posts clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding and knowledge as to what makes up a professional education and what makes up a technical one. And to lay the blame on the ANA demonstrates a lack of understanding as to what and who is a professional. To be perfectly honest, an AD and diploma graduate are clearly technical nurses. And I feel free to say this, having completed 28 months of a diploma program and having graduated from an associate degree program. And, had I had the funds, I would have gone for my BSN rather then the associate. Blame who you wish. You will still never be viewed as a professional by other health care professionals, who education standards are higher then ours. And who have only one entry level.

Grannynurse :balloons:

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
The content of these posts clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding and knowledge as to what makes up a professional education and what makes up a technical one. And to lay the blame on the ANA demonstrates a lack of understanding as to what and who is a professional. To be perfectly honest, an AD and diploma graduate are clearly technical nurses. And I feel free to say this, having completed 28 months of a diploma program and having graduated from an associate degree program. And, had I had the funds, I would have gone for my BSN rather then the associate. Blame who you wish. You will still never be viewed as a professional by other health care professionals, who education standards are higher then ours. And who have only one entry level.

Grannynurse :balloons:

I am NOT a technical nurse and was not trained as such. My program trained and educated us to be RN's and charge nurses, people who make decisions that go beyond the technical level of functioning.

AH WHAT IS THE USE?!!!! :angryfire

My participation in this discussion is finished. I can get nowhere here. Have nice weekend.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
See, that is the problem. As of this date, we are unable to even agree what a "professional" is.

I am still wondering what the theorists of pharmacy, OT, PT and others have to say of their "professions".

I get what they are trying to do (the theorists), but I don't buy into it. It's much like our NANDA nomenclature system----nursing trying desperately to "come into its own". I see the "why's" behind the various theories, but can't apply them in my practice as an RN, and I doubt I ever will.

Deb I agree with you.

I 100% support the educators in their endeavors to separte nursing from medicine and they've done an excellent job in establishing nursing as a separate body of knowledge. Today we take for it granted, but in the old days we were trained by doctors, supervised by doctors, etc. I'm just not supportive of the idea that do so, they needed to get so hung up on the definition of "professional".

There really is no disagreement on what a profession is in the ivory towers. But you and I aren't buying into it, because they say you and I aren't professional nurses. (Not saying were unprofessional, but by the ivory tower definition, ADN nurses fall under a different category than "professional nurse". Getting the lay nurse to buy into that idea isn't happening.).

I think the social work profession has the same problem with only MSW's thinking themselves as true professionals. When I got dragged into the interview by JACHO, she was asking me questions and reading the notes in the chart..........."GASP! Your social worker on this unit ONLY has a bachelor degree! You don't have an MSW?????".

In Pysch. you're only a professional with a PhD.

Other "professions" are just as catty as us Deb.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
You will still never be viewed as a professional by other health care professionals, who education standards are higher then ours. And who have only one entry level.

Grannynurse :balloons:

You know, I honestly don't care.

I have no problem being a technical nurse and not being thought of as a profession.

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