Can a unlicensed person gave and take orders?

dream'n, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2007

Never seen a receptionist do this, but I have seen uncertified MAs take orders, refill prescriptions, and call in medications that the Dr. has ordered.

TazziRN, RN · Dec 3, 2007

In offices I have seen MAs and CNAs take orders that pertain to their work, like giving Tylenol or getting labs, etc., on pts that are in the office. I have seen them approve standing scripts and call in those scripts. In hospitals they can't.

ebear, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2007

N. O. That is illegal. Unless drawing blood or giving prescribed injections or stock PO meds. Calling or faxing orders falls to licensed personnel only and is apt to result in liability on the physician's part.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 3, 2007

Not necessarily, depends on the state board requirements for that state. And also the fact that the MA or receptionist or whatever is following the order of the physician and is operating under the physician's license.

There are doctor's offices that have no licensed personnel on staff and things get done without any problem. As long as the medication has been okayed by the physician and he or she is aware of what their staff is doing.

What is done in a physician's office is different than what you see done in the hospital setting and is treated as such.

ebear, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2007

I also know of MA's who have called in the wrong dosage and directions for administration that has resulted in hospitalization of the patient.

5kids & 1 husband · Dec 3, 2007

Thanks everyone the info, (as you might can tell I am a new grad) this is in the state of Ohio, I probably should call the board to get clarification, or on the other hand why should I worry if it won't affect my license and will affect the MDs license, I feel sometimes that she is doing my job and I am doing her job for an example data entry and faxing insurance forms but mainly data entry. Oh and 1 other thing I do have question about,,,I have my own direct line in the office were the patient call directly speak to a nurse, well I get a lot of calls from patients asking for her, I have funny feeling that possible that she is passing herself off as a nurse! I just don't know what to think or what to do

time4meRN · Dec 3, 2007

Oh yehh,,, MA's are not licensed (remember a cirtification is not a license, in Ohio) and do take verbal orders, fax and administer meds after taking verbal orders. It's really scary. It's not that they can't do the task it's the knowledge behind the procedure that is lacking. I'm sure I'll hear a lot from MA's about this statement. But the fact of the matter is you don't know what you don't know. In a Dr's office you are under the DR's license , in a hospital you are under an RN's. So far I havn't seen this happen in our ER, but, with cost cutting issues that seem to dominate everything theses days, I'm sure it will come. The cost issue is why Dr's offices and urgent cares are changing to all MA's as opposed to an RN in the office. I've worked in an Urgent care that only had ER , trained RN's work there. I found that was a good thing. We had residents, some really idiot Dr's , a critical care RN made the difference in many cases. (MI's, laboring pt with impending birth, respiratory difficulties in children and adults ) . I can't imagine having some of the Dr's we did and an MA as well. Those pt's would have been really bad off. :banghead:

chocokitten · Dec 3, 2007

I am just wondering if anyone has ever ran across working with an unlicensed receptionist that gives and akes verbal orders and phones and faxes in RX? Also as the only licensed nurses (other than the MD) can I be held liable for this?
Any infor would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

depends on the state and the situation. I am in michigan and when I worked in an assisted living unlicensed staff (not even MA's, just high school degree) took (verbal, written, etc) orders, called in RX, gave meds, and transcribed orders in the MAR. We did EVERYTHING, and it was legal. So, as my nursing instructor used to say, the best answer is "it depends".

mianders, RN · Dec 3, 2007

I am an RN in TX and in the hospital setting only licensed staff can take orders. Don't know about the doctors office's.

catlynLPN · Dec 4, 2007

Thanks everyone the info, (as you might can tell I am a new grad) this is in the state of Ohio, I probably should call the board to get clarification, or on the other hand why should I worry if it won't affect my license and will affect the MDs license, I feel sometimes that she is doing my job and I am doing her job for an example data entry and faxing insurance forms but mainly data entry. Oh and 1 other thing I do have question about,,,I have my own direct line in the office were the patient call directly speak to a nurse, well I get a lot of calls from patients asking for her, I have funny feeling that possible that she is passing herself off as a nurse! I just don't know what to think or what to do

Why don't you speak with your boss...the doctor, and tell him/her your concerns and that you would like to see a bit of reorganization

of duties within the office to reflect this?

If you are an RN, or even an LPN, you have education and training that the doctor is not utilizing to the fullest extent that he could.

Surely he did not hire a "NURSE" to use you as a secretary. {No offense against secretaries......but a nurse is not a secretary and a secretary is not a nurse.**

Just my opinion and advice.

Balder_LPN, LPN · Dec 4, 2007

I also know of MA's who have called in the wrong dosage and directions for administration that has resulted in hospitalization of the patient.

i dont intend to turn this into a tit for tat, but RN's, LPN's and MD's make mistakes also that often result in hospitalization of pt's. Higher levels of training do not eliminate mistakes.

An MA is not an independant license, they work under the MD and the MD is the one who may lose thier license for the mistakes of the MA. A nurse has an independant license and is responsible for thier own practice. Nursing 101