But she's not a nurse! - page 8

I just started a new position running a clinic. The clinic is staffed by myself and one CNA. I am so happy to be working with this CNA as she has over 15 years experience working in this clinic and... Read More

  1. by   Flo1216
    If you read my previous posts you would know, but I am a nursing assistant.

    I am a senior in nursing school and I will soon be an RN. I work as a CNA at the hospital that is affiliated with my school. Why do you ask?
    Last edit by Flo1216 on Aug 4, '02
  2. by   mark_LD_RN
    i dont care how long they been doing something, if you did not sit for boards and go through nursing school you are not a nurse and should not present your self as one. that is misrepresentation to the patient. clinica and hospitals do this to save money and they should not be allowed to get away with it. as far as a CNA giving an injections, not to one of my patients will that ever happen while i am on shift. The RN is ultimately responsible for her and i would not let them do it. i also make it a point to let them know that they are wrong if i ever hear them tell patient they are a nurse or let the patient call them nurse.

    if they can do that I am going to start letting my patients call me doctor after all we do the same work and i did not earn the title but neither did the unlicensed people potraying them self as nurses. after all whats good for the goose is good for the gander.Isn't it?
  3. by   Flo1216
    A lot of the CNA'S I work with have previously worked in nursing homes and they did all sorts of stuff there that they weren't supposed to do. I know because they told me. We have one now...lets call her " Sally" who messes with the vents and does trach care. It KILLS me. I am a student and even I don't mess with that stuff, but she thinks it is OK because she has been there 15 years.One time they intubated a pt and had to transport them to ICU. There is usually a resident, a respiratory therapist, an RN and a CNA who transports them.(To help push the stretcher, that sort of thing) Well, I was on the team of the nurse whose pt it was so I had to go. She told me , " I would prefer that "sally" go because she has worked with vents and I really trust her," Trust her to do what? Wipe the pts ass if she poops on the way there? Scary.
  4. by   nursing 101
    This question was asked before but never answered... After 2 years of going to school and getting a AAS for Medical Assistant how much does one make?
    Not trying to be patronizing just curious...
    Thanks
  5. by   Stargazer
    Ultimately, the way I see it--and I believe your state BON would see it too--is that this issue is about public safety. Patients have a right to know the educational level and professional licensure of the caregiver who is treating them. While "Nurse" may be an appellation of affection for Judy's patients, and a source of pride for her, it is legally inappropriate unless it is clearly delineated by nametags, brochures, office signage or some other clearly visible means of precisely defining her role.

    A small rural doc's office in the town where I grew up has 2 practitioners: an MD and a PA. The vast majority of patients refer to them as "Dr. Bob and Dr. Harold" or otherwise refer to "the 2 doctors" and don't know or understand that Harold is not, in fact, a physician. Harold horribly mismanaged a case that resulted in severe pain and suffering for an elderly woman and a lawsuit for Dr. Bob, who was not adequately supervising Harold.

    Judy sounds like a lovely person and a valuable employee. I agree with the actions Flowerchild's taken, but do agree with other posters that that this could have been handled a bit more sensitively and diplomatically by speaking to Judy first and expressing concern for her (and Flowerchild's, and the physician's) legal liabilities. I would certainly talk with her as soon as possible, as NRSKaren suggested, before the new brochures arrive.

    Flo1216 said:
    No one is saying that "Nurse" Judy should be burned at the stake, humilated or disembowled. Just corrected and the brochures changed. It can be done in a professional manner.
    Exactly.
  6. by   Love-A-Nurse
    originally posted by nursing 101
    this question was asked before but never answered... after 2 years of going to school and getting a aas for medical assistant how much does one make?
    not trying to be patronizing just curious...
    thanks
    i wished i could help you but i have not a clue.
  7. by   BBelle
    I am in no way saying that I am a nurse. Someone asked what a CMA is lisenced to do and I replied with what I have been tought. Yes it is a one year program with the option for an Associates for an extra year. And that is what I am doing. I feel that an extra year will give me more knowledge in the medical field.
    And I never said that we triage. Some CMA's that have years of experience do triage. I for one would not feel comfortable doing that.
    The only reason I brought that up was because of the fact that where I went to school is accredited by the AAMA. Some college programs train students to become MA's and they aren't accredited and are not allowed to sit for an exam. And that to me is scary. I just wanted to say what CMA's are qualified to do.
    And to nursing 101, CMA's can make up to $18.00 dollars an hour in some states. Where I live a CMA can make up 12.00 an hour.
    If it is just an MA then they don't make as much. Belle
  8. by   DIPLOMATICRN4HIRE
    Good luck to you, but You do know your fixing to open a big can of mess.
    When you are a new in the area as in this Drs. office and you are not happy when someone who has worked there for 20 yrs has a title you dont appreciate it, well its best You think about it before you leap.
    This person who may not know the difference in the reference of calling herself a nurse and the legal ramifications of it. When you bring this to her attentions , she may do one of two things
    1. Resent you for calling her on something she hasnt achieved but thinks she has the experience to back it up ( which she may hold back from you in the future) and make your job become a living hell because she probably knows the ins and outs of that office
    2. Understand your postion and choose to have her quaifications represented on the future publications, and deal with it and not make a big issue out of it. ( Dont bank on this one, because this occurring would be a rarity, and seldom occurs)
    I would however discuss this with the Drs and inform them of the legal ramifications of misrepresentation, which occurs often and they will be held Liable! Sometimes Drs who find comfort in the office which allows such, dont become very comfortable when you discuse Liabilty, and they quickly change thier tunes and fix the problem.
    I do sence a little resentment in your tone. I understand your point I was an CNA, LPN, RN and currently working on my Masters degree and I work in the OR , and I have commonly come across surgical techs that referr themselves to be Nurses, I smile and ask them for a Nursing Diagnosis and a care plan , I dont mean to be rude but if they wish to have the title then I want to see the proof to back it up. I try not to have the dreded RNitis but sometimes You have to stand up for your abilities and the things you went through to get your degree.
    Good Luck to you , and I will throw a life preserver out for you because somethings in this feild will never change , until someone takes advise that kills , and sadly it happens all the time.
  9. by   mattsmom81
    In my neck of the woods, MA's make about the same as an LPN wage, but the training they receive is specific to docs offices. They don't work in hospitals here.

    Some docs really pay their MA's well...because a good MA who's been with their doc awhile really know the ins and outs of the office needs from billing, to xray, lab, etc..and docs appreciate this. Some MA's in my area who have worked with a doc for years make close to what an office RN would make.

    I have a few friends who started as MA's and are now in nursing school because they realized they really wanted to do hospital work: critical care and maybe CRNA school someday. They don't regret their MA, but they do realize it won't get them where they want to go.
  10. by   grandma B.
    Is the use of the term "Nurse" illegal in all States? I have often heard CNAs use this term and while it annoys me I did not realize that it is illegal. I usually introduce myself to patients as an RN, not a nurse. I would certainly object to a printed form that placed both CNA and RN on the same level.
  11. by   mattsmom81
    Originally posted by Flo1216
    A lot of the CNA'S I work with have previously worked in nursing homes and they did all sorts of stuff there that they weren't supposed to do. I know because they told me. We have one now...lets call her " Sally" who messes with the vents and does trach care. It KILLS me. I am a student and even I don't mess with that stuff, but she thinks it is OK because she has been there 15 years.One time they intubated a pt and had to transport them to ICU. There is usually a resident, a respiratory therapist, an RN and a CNA who transports them.(To help push the stretcher, that sort of thing) Well, I was on the team of the nurse whose pt it was so I had to go. She told me , " I would prefer that "sally" go because she has worked with vents and I really trust her," Trust her to do what? Wipe the pts ass if she poops on the way there? Scary.
    Flo, you will run into CNA's who have become accustomed to doing invasive procedures...many facilities call them PCT's now....and train them to do things like suction, foleys, phlebotomy, NG's, etc.....my BON refers to them as UAP's and is VERY CLEAR the nurse assumes liability of their actions.

    Nurses in Texas (many of them in LTC and horribly understaffed) are harshly disciplined by the BON for things like 'failing to monitor' an intervention performed by a PCT...and lose their licenses for PCT's care that results in harm to a patient.

    For this reason, I have no problem informing PCT/NA's I do not wish them to suction my ETT's or trachs, and I prefer to do my OWN invasive procedures. I ran into this stuff in many LTC vent facilities, when I did agency. Now some nurses are comfy with this PCT delegation.....I am not.

    Of course I would never be rude or ugly to these PCT's...and they may not like my restrictions, but it IS my license, after all.

    I encourage all RN's to familiarize themselves with their BON's position on delegation to UAP's. I know too many trusting nurses who have lost their livlihood in these situations.
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on Aug 5, '02
  12. by   StrawberryBSN
    originally posted by flo1216
    if you read my previous posts you would know, but i am a nursing assistant.

    i am a senior in nursing school and i will soon be an rn. i work as a cna at the hospital that is affiliated with my school. why do you ask?
    just curious. the posts i read you present like a narrator, kinda third person plural... "the cna's", "the rn's", "the lpn's"...etc. wasn't sure who you affiliate with. your posts seem to despise everyone. (hahaha....). just clarifying...that's all.


    s_bsn
  13. by   austin heart
    Originally posted by BBelle
    Um excuse me RedwomanRN, but CMA's are allowed to give injections. We are also technically allowed to draw blood, draw up meds, triage, EKG's, vitals, assist the doctor(s), call in prescriptions, cath, waived testing such as dipsticks for UA's, ovulation testing, ESR's, spun microhematocrit and blood glucoses. We also do gram staining, throat cultures rapid strep tests, etc.
    CMA's also are trained to run a front office of a physician's practice. And some of us are office managers.
    CMA's do a a lot of things that a nurse can do. MA's are trained to work in a doctor's office. We are nationally accredited by the AAMA and we too have to sit for an exam.
    Just because we don't have the word nurse in our title(like CNA)doesn't mean that we aren't trained to do some of what nurses do.
    And why do CNA's get so much recognition when they can't even give injections? They are trained to work in nursing homes.
    IT SOUNDS AS IF THIS PERSON, AS AN MA, IS TRYING TO HOLD HERSELF AT THE SAME LEVEL AS AN RN. SURE, AN MA MAY KNOW HOW TO DO THE THINGS SHE SAYS THEY CAN, BUT DO THEY KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN? NO. AND THAT IS WHY WE AS RN'S WENT TO NURSING SCHOOL TO GET THAT KNOWLEDGE BASE. I'M SORRY, I DID NOT WORK MY TAIL END OFF SO IN SCHOOL SO THAT I COULD BE COMPARED TO A MA!
    ALSO, THIS PERSON NEEDS TO DO HER RESEARCH BEFORE SHE POSTS. A CNA CAN GIVE INJECTIONS IF THEY PASS THE MED EXAM. THEY ARE NOT TRAINED JUST TO WORK IN NURSING HOMES. I WORKED AS CNA IN HH WHILE GOING THROUGH NURSING SCHOOL, AND WAS ABLE TO GREATLY ASSIST THE RN, BECAUSE I WAS ABLE TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH THE PTS.

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