Bullies in the workplace

mattsmom81 · Jul 23, 2003

Originally posted by caroladybelle
So anyone not of your 100% Christian unit & shift or that floats in is satan's disciple and a horned viper to be "endured" and needs to develop "human" skills.

And I, also, have called Chaplains, Rabbis, Pastors, etal. when called for. I also have prayed with my patients.

Please PM me your locale, Nurse Nanna, and I will happy not to annoy you with my "horned viper", Satan's Disciple, needs to develop "human skills" non 100% Christian assistance and you will be saved from having to "live with this evil". As if any of the "horned vipers" had a choice in being floated to your unit or really wanted to.

Talking behind their backs and having inside jokes. This is considered non-Bullying behavior??????

Shalom,

Carolina

Yes, I agree Carolina, that this is totally uncalled for and very UN-Christian to boot. It is one of the reasons so many are put off by religion and Christianity too, unfortunately. Because this kind of "I'm better than nonbelievers' thing can develop.

I consider myself a spiritual person, but I don't attend to my patients' spiritual needs because I must 'witness witness witness ' in order to be 'protected', I minister to them because I am bound by my BON to attend to their spiritual needs, whatever they may be. There IS a difference. I am constantly amazed by how some 'Christians' think.

Nanna, with all due respect please reread your post and recognize how it puts people off to our faith...

allnurses Guide · Jul 23, 2003

Regarding NurseNaNa's post . . . seems deliberately/purposely worded to sound controversial . . . .

Let's not bite, shall we? :)

Zinnia · Jul 23, 2003

I feel fortunate that I work with a very professional group of nurses. We have found that we need each other too much to try pushing each others buttons. I have noticed how the more senior nurses will 'grill' a younger nurse during report. Even me, sometimes, I have to say, "I don't know what their admission K+ was, but it is 3.8 this morning". "I don't know" doesn't make you a bad nurse, just an honest one.

Nurse Nanna · Jul 23, 2003

caroladybelle, furball, and dawngloves:

First of all, let me say that I'm sure you all "feel" you have a good reason for being so "angry." I appreciate and respect your feelings, comments and feedback. It gives me some insight into the full "picture" of our topic and your comments will be looked at with serious consideration. This is a discussion post between people who have been "bullied" at work for LONG periods of time, and they have exhausted all means of resolving the problem to no avail. This particular post is for people to "vent" and "share" their frustration and coping skills on how they deal with the situation. We have discussed and considered alternatives on how to deal with the "bully", "harrasser", "abuser", in the workplace. Although none of us are perfect, we can and do come up with ideas and turn to our Lord Jesus Christ to "help" us get through it and hopefully not lash out, but rather to "cope" sanely and effectively. Sometimes, when you are at the end of your rope and NOTHING has helped, "joking" is the only way to cope. Nobody said it is right or wrong, but what is done covertly between coworkers to "cope" with a horrible person is not necessarily "bullying". It is "coping". If you all KNOW Jesus Christ, then you know, He did have quite a sense of humor. Look around us ladies, and tell me He doesn't have a great sense of humor and "unconditional love" for us. Now, I will try to intelligently and professionally respond to your responses.

Obviously the three of you have not "read" and "fully understand" the past week of conversation between the ones of us who were having this conversation. You obviously heard what you wanted to hear and interpreted 'parts' of one "single" post the way you wanted to interpret it. Obviously you also do not truly KNOW Jesus Christ or you would know that NONE OF US are perfect, nor are we expected to be; He was, is, and will always be The Only Perfect One--that IS why He died for us (our sins). We can only 'try' to do good all the time and when we fail, we ask His forgiveness and attempt not to make the same mistakes again. Sometimes, we develop coping skills to deal with an unbearable and unresolvable situation. Each of us that DO have a PERSONAL relationship with Christ have to deal with our own flaws and imperfections with Him, not answer to anyone else, Christian or non-Christian. You are all adults AND nurses who, fortuntely, have not had to endure the enormous bullying, physical abuse, and hell that some of us have. Now I will try to address each of your responses separately:

caroladybelle: What I said "One of these" -- You translated to "ANYONE not of your 100% Christian unit & Shift or that floats" - That is NOT what I said and that is a gross mistranslation. (If you had read all the previous posts I described the floater or relief at that particular facility;)-it did not mention names, or the state, or say that ALL reliefs or floaters were included. This did not say anything about "you", but for some reason 'you' took it personally and are obviously extremely "ANGRY!" You described yourself in the "non-Christian, viper, etc." category. Please RE-READ your large paragraph. Maybe that is the cause for your 'anger'. A person can be a 'non-Christian' and still be a wonderful nurse, co-worker and friend, without being a BULLY. I have many, many, non-Christian friends, family, acquaintances, and coworkers, and I RESPECT their decision. Were did you see "talking behind their backs"? Another mistranslation. Holding a unit meeting, per the DON and Administrator recommendation, to openly discuss and attempt to come to some type of resolve and/or coping mechanism to get through a shift when we HAD to deal with some of these folks is not "talking behind their backs". When a charge nurse has to inform her nursing staff that "the facility bully" is being sent over to work with them and they all sigh and roll their eyes it can be pretty demoralizing for everyone for the shift. You HAVE to come up with something to keep them motivated and in good morale. Can you tell me that you would be "happy" to know you are going to be working your shift on your unit with a nurse who literally "jerks" things out of your hands; "throws ink pens, med packages, bandages or whatever is handy" at you; calls you names like "stupid ass", "freakin' idiot", "little *****"; slams doors going into or out of a room; literally 'throws' patient charts, medicine logs, and notebooks on the desk, verbally abuses your aides and patients, and tells you how "you didn't have the right, the seniority, or the experience to have this position." And continue to be nice to them. I tried for several months to talk to this nurse, but she was so 'angry' at me because in her own words: "you got MY dam job and I'm sick of floating all over this 'hellhole' and pushing pills and you walk in here and take over." Then I went to the manager, the DON, and the Administrator and attempted to resolve the problem she had and she sat there everytime, popped an eyebrow and said, "I don't know what she's talking about; I never said that." I told her "Look, you are angry everytime you have to work with us and you throw things, which is dangerous for all of us, especially the patients, and you get physically aggressive with me and my staff. We need to resolve this. I offered to the manager and to the DON with her sitting there that "position" was not important to me, I accepted it because it was offered - I originally said I didn't think I was ready and they both insisted I could handle it. The DON asked her "Would that make you happy if ***** resigned from that position? Because you and I both know why you can't hold that position or any position of authority. Is that the issue here? I need to have an answer. If you don't like going to that unit, why do you REQUEST it?" (she doesn't HAVE to come, she REQUESTS it) She said "No, I have no idea what she's talking about and I don't appreciate what you just said." and she walked out. The behavior continued every time she came to our unit. She told new nurses coming to the facility to "Watch out for her, she's a DOG!" She denies, no action can be taken. That, caroladybelle, in anybody's book, is a monster. She doesn't want resolve, she wants to make everybody's life miserable because apparently she did something wrong somewhere. It's none of my business and I have NEVER until right now even repeated that conversation. Nobody EXCEPT Jesus could endure that working environment. Coping skill: know she's coming, laugh it off, and tell the staff, "well, ***** is coming over to work with us tonight so put on your armor and halos and carry a fat Bible. Be sure to Thank her for helping us out. HaHa. Sorry you don't get the humor. It is a bit difficult to re-explain every detail of every post in an ongoing situation. But there is one new example of "life on the floor with a bully." Now, tell me 'who is bullying whom?' As far as "Alligator mouth/humingbird butt" - that's a good one, did you make that up all by yourself or is it plagiarized? And, exactly what does it mean? I kind of like it. STICKS AND STONES.....Now who's the bully? We are all listening if you have a solution-but please, only offer advice and suggestions if you have first hand experience with the problem.

Furball:

Mean? Obviously, you too read, mistranslated, and responded to a "piece" of a post that you were not "well informed" on. MEAN? Take it how you want it, but "You don't get to have an opinion about MY personal relationship with Jesus Christ; that's strictly between Him and me." And, forgive me if I'm a little confused here, but what does your 'political affiliation' have to do with this topic? I have two children who are active duty USMC officers, one child who is USMC retired and one child who is USN retired. One of my sons served 'active duty' in both of the Gulf Wars. I APPRECIATE your support of the military-after all, they do protect all of America from Bullies and Monsters, and all the adjectives used world wide, but what does your personal political affiliation have to do with someone being made miserable at work?

You can read the response to caroladybelle and please respond on how you might handle the situation described? There are a lot of people out there begging for help. We're listening and totally open to suggestions. But, please, only offer your "informed, experienced, advice." If you ain't been there, done that, then-you don't know."

dawngloves:

I'm assuming, (and they say NEVER ASSUME), that you work maternity/nursery? I haven't heard complaints from any nurses from maternity or nursery about "bullies". Maybe it's a different environment. I've never worked that field, so I really don't know. But, please read the responses to caroladybelle and furball and any previous posts from the past week r/t this subject of "bullies in the workplace." It isn't just nursing, bullies are out there, including on our school grounds. You referred to Matthew 6:34at the end of your post, but I'm concerned whether you are "truly" knowledgable of The Bible, or "Human Psychology", which is even more frightening since you ARE a nurse. You need to "look at and assess the whole picture" before making a diagnosis or offering an opinion or submitting a report. You did not "look at the whole picture." Please read ALL the posts r/t this topic-it is not about one isolated incident or one isolated person; this is a serious, ongoing thing-bullying. You made the comment: "And you exclude yourself from this category" - (what category? it was a long post and the topic has been discussed over a week or better in several posts)-Don't get me wrong, I Appreciate AND Respect your response, I just need some clarification on exactly which part 'you' took so personally so I can intelligently and professionally respond to it. You go on to say, "because you throw the name of Jesus into the 'mix'(?) every now and again????" Um, no, and that one I Don't Explain To You; my PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST is just that, MINE AND PERSONAL! And if you are a Christian, then you already know that, and you DON'T get to be the JUDGE. He and He alone is My Redeemer.

kdo6905 · Jul 23, 2003

Can we all agree that bullying, backstabbing and gossiping happens in nursing because it is dominated by women? It's like a big hen house. And I agree, it occurs in all workplaces. Not just in nursing. It's a woman thang, not just a nursing thang.

Nurse Ratched, RN · Jul 23, 2003

First of all, NurseNanna, people have signature lines that appear at the end of every one of their posts. They are not directed at you personally. They appear below the solid line at the bottom of the post.

Second, everyone, please let's not turn this into a religious discussion. Attacking posts will not be tolerated, and that's the only way a "my religion is better than your religion" discussion ever seems to go. Please return to the topic at hand. Off topic stuff can go to pm, but I remind everyone that pm's may not be abusive or harrassing in nature.

This has been a useful thread for some people. Let's not make it something nasty that has to be pulled.

Thanks.

ST_NURSE_MLD · Jul 23, 2003

Night Owl,

I agree. Let's band together and force them OUT... Currently, I'm a student nurse; however, I have worked in the corporate environment for many years. I don't like office bullies and ususally find myself taking up for those they tourment. People just don't realize that the ones you tourment are "sometimes" the ones that walk into the unit with a hand gun.

Nurse Nanna · Jul 23, 2003

After re-reading my post, I will offer my apologies to any of you whose toes I may have stepped on. Maybe I went a little over-board on making a point. I LOVE nursing and I LOVE JESUS (both of which are Personal choices) and depend on him heavily to 'get me through' most days. This is NOT a religion site and Donny and I were unknowingly or unwittingly using it as a personal conversation site. It is not and was not a good thing to have a personal conversation where many others were 'exposed' to it. My mistake; and, at my age, I should have thought it through. You know, the old, think before you speak. I do appreciate the input and response from all of you. Although I know how it was meant, and I'm familiar with all the parties involved and the situation at hand, everyone out there in nurseland doesn't have personal knowledge and I can see how it was misinterpreted and or offensive to. At the least, I can and do apologize for any misunderstanding, misinterpretation, or mistranslation of the post and do accept responsibility for my part in not "making clear" some of the things I wrote. It was not "a personal thing" to any of you. I DO NOT push religion at work, or anywhere else. I witness by habit - like lots of other things we grow up with, it's habit. And that, I WILL NOT apologize for. If someone says something to me I take offense at, I simply say: "that offends me"- that's all it takes, "that offends me".

HAVE A GREAT DAY AND HAPPY NURSING!

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2003

Originally posted by kdo6905
Can we all agree that bullying, backstabbing and gossiping happens in nursing because it is dominated by women? It's like a big hen house. And I agree, it occurs in all workplaces. Not just in nursing. It's a woman thang, not just a nursing thang.

No , we do not agree on this. I spent over 10 years in a male dominated segment of the Business world, and can personally attest to men being just as mean, nasty and downright evil as women. And they can be just as kind and wonderful as women, also.

Goodness can exist in human kind just as bullying does. It is a HUMAN Trait.

As far as bullying goes. I have little trouble with it as I will not put up with it. Simply find the right ploy. Most bullies feel weakened or inadequate in some way. Find some way to build them up or help them improve upon that trait, and make them feel better about themselves in a constructive manner, and they stop being bullies. Of course, it takes a little more time and skill than treating them like vipers/satan's disciple but it is much more useful in the long run. This works with about 90% of them, the rest, you just go about your business and ignore them. As a traveler, I gain respect by utilizing these techniques. It also keeps me on track.

I also find the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you works nicely". So if you treat them like vipers...well, what do you expect?

Respectfully,

Carolina (no, she doesn't know Jesus because she's not a Christian) in the City

Nurse Nanna · Jul 23, 2003

I strongly agree that IT IS NOT "A Woman Thang" - I too worked in a male dominated environment for 17 years and they can be the worst manipulators, backstabbers and downright bullies ever known. They go home and take it out on the wife and kids.

And, I feel that someone else needs to re read her posts and look at the contradictions - Talk about a bully, hmmmm. I disagree that treating a bully as you would like to be treated will change them; it does not always work, not even 90% of the time. Been there tried that. It has worked on some, but not on all or even most. Sometimes, people are just who they are, and you gotta make the best of it, whatever the best may be for the particular situation and depending on the seriousness of it. And as far as you being a traveler, I totally respect what you do; that is a tough job. I have a very dear friend who travels and she "ignores" the bullies unless it becomes necessary to "take the bull by the horns" as she puts it. But travelers are in a different situation from permanent staff, and when you are only a few weeks here and a few weeks there, it is different from being bombarded month after month with no end in sight. Plus, travelers get a lot more support and respect from the administration. You are right in the respect that once you take it head on it USUALLY does stop, but there is always an exception to every rule. This particular person, who was quite a bit younger than me, was a very unhappy, miserable person. I tried to befriend her, I tried the "build her self-esteem" thing with compliments on her new hair do, her shoes, her new eyeglasses, her techniques and knowlege; and I tried the "teach me what you know" thing (because I had watched her work and she was truly a very good nurse, knowledgable and thorough-I was a new nurse and I was very impressed with her skills and wanted to be good at it too-she snubbed me and said things like "you want to be a nurse? hmmm, would look at her friend and they'd laugh out loud-I thought I must have missed something and would ask "did I miss something?" Again, laugh and walk off.) For the most part, we did work well together for about two months and always worked great together in a crisis. When I was put in the charge position, unknowingly, that she wanted and possibly thought she was going to get, it made her angry; but instead of going to admin, she took it out on me. Through managers observation, etc. I was selected for that position - I didn't even want it, I was too new and inexperienced but due to my age and "life experience" and the way I "handled" myself, the facilities three managers, asst. managers, DON, and Admin talked me into a "give it a trial." For whatever reason, she couldn't have had the position anyway, but she was angry that "a new nurse" got it and she and some of the other nurses had a # of years experience. I am the type of person to exhaust all other means of resolve before I go to extremes. My gosh, I raised 6 children, 4 of whom are military, two now retired and two currently officers in the USMC. At any rate, I wrote an apology post to the earlier one that offended many people including yourself, but I guess you either haven't read it yet or maybe choose not to. I wish you success in your nursing career and hope you NEVER have to endure the type of "bullying" that I am talking about. This is a woman who got together with her 'friend' and filed fraudulent complaints with the 'hotline' and the Board of Nursing and the 'friend' was given the option to resign or be fired for her part in the fraud. This was over a 3 month long investigation that was costly, nerve-racking, and time consuming. All because she was "angry" at ????? No one did anything to her. She apparently had something in her past record that kept her from being able to be in a leadership position. Like I said, none of my business and I never repeated it until today. But, I went straight to her and asked if we could talk. "NOPE!!" How would you handle that. I AM open, totally.

Furball · Jul 23, 2003

Originally posted by caroladybelle
[Carolina (no, she doesn't know Jesus because she's not a Christian) in the City [/b]

haha Carolina ... I'm a horns on the head, evil viper, devil's disciple (I'm agnostic)...but that apparently isn''t a "mean" comment so I guess I'll just chuckle over it .:chuckle

dawngloves, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2003

Originally posted by Nurse Nanna
"And you exclude yourself from this category" - (what category? it was a long post and the topic has been discussed over a week or better in several posts)I Don't Explain To You; my PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST is just that, MINE AND PERSONAL!

I quoted you as calling other nurses

"the sicko, psycho, bully, dysfunctional, malfunctioning folks " after you admit to calling them names BEHIND THEIR BACKS! And you think this is appropriate behavior for an adult because you call your self a Christian and that Jesus Christ is your Savior. Does this give you licsense to to be a bully? :confused:

I don't care what your relationship with Christ is. You are a pot calling the kettle black.