artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo - page 7

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped... Read More

  1. by   steelcityrn
    Here is how I feel about it.....The husband has no motives other than seeing that his wife's wishes are honored....period!

    Now having said that, I place myself in the shoes of her parent. If I was her mom ( or dad), I can see how they will fight for their dgt to continue living. Any film I see on her she appears to be in no pain, and seems to respond to verbal and tactile stimuli. That must be huge for a parent, to see their child smile or respond to them.

    So since we are living in the real world, and few people that age would have a living wiil, I feel the parents of the child should always have the last say-so.


    GOD BLESS HER AND ALL HER FAMILY
  2. by   ktwlpn
    Quote from steelcityrn
    Here is how I feel about it.....The husband has no motives other than seeing that his wife's wishes are honored....period!

    Now having said that, I place myself in the shoes of her parent. If I was her mom ( or dad), I can see how they will fight for their dgt to continue living. Any film I see on her she appears to be in no pain, and seems to respond to verbal and tactile stimuli. That must be huge for a parent, to see their child smile or respond to them.

    So since we are living in the real world, and few people that age would have a living wiil, I feel the parents of the child should always have the last say-so.


    GOD BLESS HER AND ALL HER FAMILY
    Let's look at her situation from another POV-imagine you are Terri....You can't move your body if you are uncomfortable,can't scratch your nose if it itches.You can't eat and drink.....You can't ask for another blanket or a fan if you are cold...You can't see a clock or even tell time if you could.You are aware that time does pass very slowly...Sometimes you are happy and comforted by the presence of people-but they don't stay long and you never know when or if they will come back....You can't verbalize that you DO have pain sometimes-you have a leg cramp or a headache...can't even ask for tylenol...You are washed,your basic bodily functions are tended to by others.You are cleaned when you are having your period and after you have a bowel movement on yourself..................Can you honestly say you would sentence your child to living year after year in a prison of a body like this? SOMETIMES death is a release---not a game to loose but a gift-a ticket to a better place.....
    Last edit by ktwlpn on Mar 15, '05
  3. by   redwinggirlie
    No no no
  4. by   hollyster
    Quote from ktwlpn
    Let's look at her situation from another POV-imagine you are Terri....You can't move your body if you are uncomfortable,can't scratch your nose if it itches.You can't eat and drink.....You can't ask for another blanket or a fan if you are cold...You can't see a clock or even tell time if you could.You are aware that time does pass very slowly...Sometimes you are happy and comforted by the presence of people-but they don't stay long and you never know when or if they will come back....You can't verbalize that you DO have pain sometimes-you have a leg cramp or a headache...can't even ask for tylenol...You are washed,your basic bodily functions are tended to by others.You are cleaned when you are having your period and after you have a bowel movement on yourself..................Can you honestly say you would sentence your child to living year after year in a prison of a body like this? SOMETIMES death is a release---not a game to loose but a gift-a ticket to a better place.....
    I could not agree more.
  5. by   BadBird
    I think it is terrible how the government and news media have made a circus out of this, let her husband decide, if it were me I would not want to live like that, she may have expressed that very wish to her husband. I wish him peace with his decision and for Teri a painless death. For the rest of us, let us mind our own business and if any of us think it terrible then make a living will so your own family won't languish over such details.
  6. by   CHPN1680
    Quote from ktwlpn
    Let's look at her situation from another POV-imagine you are Terri....You can't move your body if you are uncomfortable,can't scratch your nose if it itches.You can't eat and drink.....You can't ask for another blanket or a fan if you are cold...You can't see a clock or even tell time if you could.You are aware that time does pass very slowly...Sometimes you are happy and comforted by the presence of people-but they don't stay long and you never know when or if they will come back....You can't verbalize that you DO have pain sometimes-you have a leg cramp or a headache...can't even ask for tylenol...You are washed,your basic bodily functions are tended to by others.You are cleaned when you are having your period and after you have a bowel movement on yourself..................Can you honestly say you would sentence your child to living year after year in a prison of a body like this? SOMETIMES death is a release---not a game to loose but a gift-a ticket to a better place.....
    I agree. How many out there would want to stay alive in that state? Take everything else out of the equation. I can't imagine anyone knowing that this would be the state in which they existed would say that they would rather live that way than to die.
  7. by   jeepgirl
    while i don't know that she would have choose this, it happened to her. i think that the whole starving her to death / dehydrating her is what is getting everyone upset. also, her husbands motives are malicious.

    For instance, he wants to cremate her. She verbally said that she was afraid of cremation to friends / family and her catholic faith demands that she not be. However, he plans on cremating her upon her death. He also wants to bury the ashes in Penn, not in Florida where her family is.

    Oh, and while she is alive... he refuses to let cards, pictures, flowers, or balloons in her room. he restricts family vistations. he refuses her dental care and other FREE services. she's developed painful contractures due to his refusing care for her. he's also refused to let her be treated with antibiotics when she has had severe infections. When the feeding tube was removed before, he refused to let her brothers and sisters in to visit her while she was dying. He also refuses to let her have other simple palliatve measures.

    There's been other incidents in the past few years.
    5 times at least Terri has had severe hypoglycemic episodes. They have all been after he has visited, gone in the room and shut the door and told staff to not come in. He's suspected of injecting her with insulin. Her blood sugars have always been stable due to the uniformity of her diet.
    And after all of this... after even the initial collapse and living through that ordeal... she still won't die.

    Makes you think, Hum? I think she's here for a purpose.

    My big beef here is with the husband. He's outright trying to murder her.

    She should have never had the tube placed in the first place is my opinion. But, now that she is and has been like this for 15 years... why should we kill her now? In a pretty painful way...
    I know that others are saying that dehydration is an OK way to go. But from what I can see when I worked palliative care.... their mouths hurt. They got thirsty, gaggy, and sick. Their skin became dry and itchy and fragile. Of course, these were much fragile, older individuals.

    Oh, BTW, the judge refused to allow her to take foods and water by mouth after they remove the feeding tube. A nurse has testified that she feed Terri by mouth multiple times without a problem... but she kept it a "secret" because of the wrath of her husband. He refused to let her have anything by mouth.
    Last edit by jeepgirl on Mar 15, '05
  8. by   jeepgirl
    Quote from bobl
    i agree. how many out there would want to stay alive in that state? take everything else out of the equation. i can't imagine anyone knowing that this would be the state in which they existed would say that they would rather live that way than to die.
    but you're talking about killing her because of how she is living.

    that is called euthanasia.... or "mercy killing."

    and it is illegal in the us.

    or at least, it was.

    they just should not have placed the tube. period. now, the damage is done. she has lived with it for years. why pull it now?

    btw, they did pull the tube entirely from her abdomen once before instead of just clamping it. then they had to go and reinsert it. i don't agree with that... that's very painful.
    Last edit by jeepgirl on Mar 15, '05
  9. by   Kyriaka
    Quote from BadBird
    I think it is terrible how the government and news media have made a circus out of this, let her husband decide, if it were me I would not want to live like that, she may have expressed that very wish to her husband. I wish him peace with his decision and for Teri a painless death. For the rest of us, let us mind our own business and if any of us think it terrible then make a living will so your own family won't languish over such details.
    _____________
    You must make it your business. With this case lies the future of euthanasia & the rights of the disabled in this country.

    I look at this woman and think...she is on fewer machines than I was! Now granted, I was not on life support for long. But where would I be without rehab?

    And btw, my parents were put under tremendous pressure to disconnect me. No hope they said.
  10. by   jeepgirl
    Quote from subee
    Artificial feeding can be a heroic measure under some circumstances - unfortunately in too many cases. If Terri is being tube fed can we not assume that she has no or an insufficient gag reflex. Being able to swallow a sip of water and being fed by mouth are not the same thing. How much are the taxpayers paying for her care? If her parents want to control her prolonged death, they should take her home. There are so many other patients that could use the money that is spent on her care - including prevention.
    I don't know if she is on state aid.
    I do know that she got a 1.2 million dollar malpractice settlement brought on by her husband. he alleged that the docs should have known that she had bulemia, and by failing to diagnosis it they caused her death.

    There's been plenty of money to pay for her care according to her family. However, her husband has squandered it.
    Over 600,000 of dollars of that money has gone to just ONE attorney to fight to get her feeding tube DC'd so she'd die. There are multiple attorneys, doctors, specialists, etc that have been paid out of that fund to assist with his case. Most of the docs that have seen her have spent an average of 10 minutes examining her before making their conclusions.

    There's less than 50,000 left of the money... her husband has spent almost all of it, very little of it actually going to her care.

    He also got a spousal settlement in the lawsuit and it is gone.
    Last edit by jeepgirl on Mar 15, '05
  11. by   CHPN1680
    Quote from jeepgirl
    but you're talking about killing her because of how she is living.

    that is called euthanasia.... or "mercy killing."

    and it is illegal in the us.

    or at least, it was.

    they just should not have placed the tube. period. now, the damage is done. she has lived with it for years. why pull it now?

    btw, they did pull the tube entirely from her abdomen once before instead of just clamping it. then they had to go and reinsert it. i don't agree with that... that's very painful.
    it certainly is not an easy situation. we don't do a very good job in this country at talking about these things before the situation arises. i would be o.k. with having a feeding tube inserted if there was a reasonable amount of hope that eventually, i could rehab and be able to make decisions for myself. if within a period of weeks, it became clear that rehab was not likely, then i would want the tube d/c'd but i realize that this is not about me.

    i do feel bad for her parents as i believe that what they are doing is only because they love her. if the horrible things they say about her husband are true, i believe that you get back from the world what you put out to it.

    i don't believe that d/cing the tube is euthanasia. it would be euthanasia if someone were to administer a drug that caused her to die with the intent of causing her to die. withdrawal of an artificial means of feeding is allowing death to occur as it would naturally. i believe that she will die peacefully if the tube is d/c'd. i wish her comfort and peace no matter what happens.
  12. by   jeepgirl
    Quote from BobL
    It certainly is not an easy situation. We don't do a very good job in this country at talking about these things before the situation arises. I would be o.k. with having a feeding tube inserted if there was a reasonable amount of hope that eventually, I could rehab and be able to make decisions for myself. If within a period of weeks, it became clear that rehab was not likely, then I would want the tube D/C'd but I realize that this is not about me.

    I do feel bad for her parents as I believe that what they are doing is only because they love her. If the horrible things they say about her husband are true, I believe that you get back from the world what you put out to it.

    I don't believe that D/Cing the tube is euthanasia. It would be euthanasia if someone were to administer a drug that caused her to die with the intent of causing her to die. Withdrawal of an artificial means of feeding is allowing death to occur as it would naturally. I believe that she will die peacefully if the tube is D/C'd. I wish her comfort and peace no matter what happens.
    Bob...

    I can see what you're saying.

    I just can't believe that her husband refuses to let her even try to sallow food and water per mouth. That also makes me think it is euthanasia. At least, a soft form of it!!!

    I feel sorry for her parents also. I hope that her husband gets it! He's seems like a very mean fellow to say the least.
  13. by   ktwlpn
    what really strikes me here is the amount of mis-information quoted in post after post on this thread /color]....the right to die issue should not be lumped in with the rights of the disabled....i want the right to determine how i want to live or die-i am not telling you what you should do with yourself.....terri's case has nothing to do with the disabled imo.i believe that she probably said yrs ago that she would not want to be kept alive by "heroic measures" i believe that includes tube feeding....nutrition delivered by any other route then p.o. is not "natural" by any stretch of the imagination.......when i was in my teens and early 20's i knew many young men and women that were killed in accidents ,overdosed or were suicides.the rest of us often spoke of endof life issues....remember karen quinlan? i bet terri schiavo was familiar with her,too....some of you just keep judging her husband according to your idea of honor and morals-believing everything you see and read on the net and tv,letting your emotions regarding end of life issues and your experiences color your view of her situation....i challenge you to look at the law involved....do you want the right to make end of life decisions for yourself or do you want the government to decide for you? if you think terri's husband is wrong and the government should keep stepping in to stop her from dying then you have to realize that this particular case is one in a million...you know if this type of decision was left up to the government ltc's would empty out in the blink of an eye...they'd put a lifetime cap on medical benefits and that would be that....the danger of this case is letting it set a precedent----each case is unique-we must remember that.....we don't want anyone having the power to step in and make this decision for us and our families....

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