Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

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I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

Also, I have read several articles and watched a family when the feeding tube was removed. this not a painless death, yes you are dehydrated but you are also starving.

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It is easy for the powers that be to say something is painless. How do they know for sure if the person cannot communicate??

Even the Romans when they crucified people had compassion enough to wet their lips.

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I just wonder about the new "wife, girlfriend," whatever she is and what kind of a person she is to get involved with a man like this?

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It is interested that you bring this up because Men's Daily (online mens magazine) addresses this issue today. Here is the link:

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/m-n/mccullough/2005/mccullough031505.htm

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Specializes in NICU.

We've had entire threads about death by withdrawing fluid and nutrition, and I hear it's not traumatic if pain meds and anxiety meds are given.

Hospice nurses? Comments about this?

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Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
(I learned something else the hard way-towards the end of my mothers life she was unable to swallow the wafer-after the priest left I had to clean it out of her mouth.I'm going to Hell because I disposed of it incorrectly.

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A priest told you that you were going to hell??

Yeah, right.

Sure he did.

Address the post-NOT the poster.....I am NOT a liar-the catholic church considers the communion wafer to be the actual body of Christ-the priest made no bones about telling me what a serious mistake I had made.....but since I am not a catholic I just took it with a grain of salt.....
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Address the post-NOT the poster.....I am NOT a liar-the catholic church considers the communion wafer to be the actual body of Christ-the priest made no bones about telling me what a serious mistake I had made.....but since I am not a catholic I just took it with a grain of salt.....

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Of course it is the body and blood of Christ. That is a given.

But that has nothing to do with going to hades.

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Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.

OK-so the bottom line here is #1-is artificial feeding "heroic measures"? It does not matter what we think of the husband,the parents or her quality of life.......By law-does this man who IS legally her husband have the right to make this decision? Apparently so-there is not enough evidence to charge the husband with any criminal act (many suspect him of causing her collapse) Can those of you who do not consider tube feeding a heroic measure tell me why you feel this way?

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We've had entire threads about death by withdrawing fluid and nutrition, and I hear it's not traumatic if pain meds and anxiety meds are given.

Hospice nurses? Comments about this?

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Now this is the rub. IF pain meds and anxiety meds are given.

I doubt (if we are to learn from the trackrecord of Mr. Schiavo) that he has allowed pain meds.

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OK-so the bottom line here is #1-is artificial feeding "heroic measures"? It does not matter what we think of the husband,the parents or her quality of life.......By law-does this man who IS legally her husband have the right to make this decision? Apparently so-there is not enough evidence to charge the husband with any criminal act (many suspect him of causing her collapse) Can those of you who do not consider tube feeding a heroic measure tell me why you feel this way?

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I do not consider it heroic.

Because I am a former coma patient and was fed this way.

Perhaps it was heroic, but thank G-d for the heroism and those who fought to keep me on a breathing machine.

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OK-so the bottom line here is #1-is artificial feeding "heroic measures"? It does not matter what we think of the husband,the parents or her quality of life.......By law-does this man who IS legally her husband have the right to make this decision? Apparently so-there is not enough evidence to charge the husband with any criminal act (many suspect him of causing her collapse) Can those of you who do not consider tube feeding a heroic measure tell me why you feel this way?

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It can be argued, however, that since he does have a common law wife (which does require a divorce decree in some states) that he is not her husband. He is a bigamist and both marriages are invalid.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

Artificial feeding can be a heroic measure under some circumstances - unfortunately in too many cases. If Terri is being tube fed can we not assume that she has no or an insufficient gag reflex. Being able to swallow a sip of water and being fed by mouth are not the same thing. How much are the taxpayers paying for her care? If her parents want to control her prolonged death, they should take her home. There are so many other patients that could use the money that is spent on her care - including prevention.

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Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
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It can be argued, however, that since he does have a common law wife (which does require a divorce decree in some states) that he is not her husband. He is a bigamist and both marriages are invalid.

Can you show me evidence to support those statements? Some law? We continue to let our emotions decide this woman's fate-and our feelings towards the husband. Not the law...and THAT is the "slippery slope" The law must take precedence here-not her husbands "morality" or her parents "faith" or numerous other factors mentioned including our own histories and choices regarding our own advance directives.....You can "argue" all you wish-but you can't stand up in a court of law and argue anything but the facts as they pertain to the law...

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My personal opinion is that this is no longer about Terri( and has not been for years.) It is a control issue between the spouse and the parents.

Both parties are more concerned with getting thier way then what is best for Terri.

I live in Florida and this story and the proposed bill are the top of the news everyday. This is the second bill put forth( the first,Terri's law, was ruled illegal because it only addressed Terri.) I wrote to our Governor and State Senator suggesting that if this bill is passed, people be able to declare thier status on thier driver's license(as with organ donation) or voter's registration. Not many people are responsible enough (or are in denial) to have the proper paperwork done(POA,Living will,etc.) This would make it easier.

Some type of legislation is necessary but not the bill as it is written now. IF the pt's wishes are not EXPRESSLY known(as yet undetermined what will define expressly) the law will take away a family's right to speak for the pt. The language of the bill is too vague.

Today's Gainesville (FL) paper stated that this new law would remove a parent's right to remove hydration and nutrition from minor children as well. Now, how can a child make known thier wishes when they can not even comprehend the question. This bill as is will just increase the horror these families are going through. They are also trying to make the bill retroactive to cover Terri since the appellate court refused to hear the latest appeal.

I wonder what the outcome of this would have been if the parties involved spent all the attorney's fees on counseling instead.

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