Agism in nursing???? (furious rant potential)

CseMgr1, ASN, RN · Nov 16, 2005

I've experienced all of the above. I have difficulty getting past recruiters and I can't help but think it's my age and the fact I'm not a new grad.

You, too? :angryfire Don't even get me started about these people, when they look you straight in the face during your interview, smile and tell you how impressed they are with your experience...only to never be heard from again, or give the common courtesy of returning a phone call or an e-mail.

Gennaver, MSN · Nov 16, 2005

Thank you for the encouraging words.
....My qualifications far surpassed most or all of the people they hired, I guarantee you.
...If someone wrote about being turned down because they were a person of color, would that make any more sense?
So, while I appreciate the encouragement, we really didn't have the same experience. Thanks for sharing, and good luck in the new situation. It does sound like you have grown through the "I want it" to "I appreciate it" way of life, but this isn't about sour grapes.

Hi Chris at Lucas RN,

You are right. It is too difficult to remove the agism in this situation. Had they told you beforehand that your qualifications were more than the position required or so on, that would be a possiblity for being passed over. Yet, it was not until they met you face to face.

At the very least they could have been very specific in the rejection as to WHY they did the sudden turn around.

They are rats, I wish you the best outcome in this.

I am in age right after the boomers and right before the 'millenials-or y-ers' and have heard that these are equally large groups. Now the 'millenials' are also a bigger consumer market, mostly because they are spending their boomer parents money, but they are the targeted consumer market.

I am only just now realizing, at near 40, that it is becoming more and more difficult for me to get those previously very easy to snag jobs...

Due to my last two year's experience of job search, (although still a student) I grabbed on to this new job at a good hospital in a heartbeat.

When my husband asked me why I volunteered for 12 hour midnight shifts I told him, I will work any shift they offer me. Although, luckily they didn't require me to work midnights, my shift will be mostly days. I volunteered to work midnights for part of my training and also occasionally during my regularly scheduled shifts.

Okay, sorry got waaay off track.

I hope that things work out really good for you, this situation really sucks!

Gen

Gennaver, MSN · Nov 16, 2005

To the OP: the best of luck and speed in finding a new position.
...
Also, as a few other posters mentioned, "overqualified" may also be an issue here. You might try tweaking your resume, not to downplay your considerable accomplishments, but to better tailor your presentation to positions you are currently seeking.
Job hunting is frustrating work. Good luck to you. :)

Hi,

This sounds like a great idea. Tweak it down to present properly. Many of my current classmates, (in a graduate entry program) have very impressive work/academic experiences. Some have very high previous salaries and as one of them mentioned yesterday, she had some trepidation about listing her former salaries on her new applications for fear of intimidating new employers!

My advice was to be honest and that when it comes to listing salary expected to put either 'comparable with my academic and work history' OR 'negotiable'.

Hiqh qualifcations most likely do need to be tailored and discreetly listed in order to direct a resume properly.

Hmm, this is tough.

Gen

weesyanne · Jun 25, 2006

Actually, I'm 48 and have 21 years of experience and I had a much more difficult time finding a job when I was younger than anytime later in my career. I'm sure that there are places who do have ageist attitudes, but the last few times I have interviewed, I haven't had any difficulty in getting offered a job.

One person I interviewed with didn't think that I was a good "fit" for her unit (the feeling was pretty much mutual, actually). I didn't get a good feeling for the floor that she managed. I know the nurse recruiter would have found me another department to interview in, but I took a job that was offered at another hospital at the time.

I think it is sad if the employers you met did practice ageism. The nursing population is getting older and they better get used to seeing more mature candidates.

PANurseRN1 · Jun 25, 2006

Is there ageism in nursing? You bet your bippy. Just look at the innumerable threads here, full of disdain for "older" nurses. It's disgusting.

HARRN2b · Jun 25, 2006

My mother and I had this conversation (she in her 70's). This may be off track, if so please ignore. America is a culture that values youth. One only has to look at magazines and advertisements. Sure they want all that knowledge and education, but they want it in a 20 something year old. And she better be nice looking too. The right weight, height and look like the girl next door. I had honestly hoped that nursing would be different, and that is why I am pursuing it. I can guarantee that your patient does not care what you look like as long as he/she is getting their care. It would appear the only individuals that care are HR. If I experience discrimination, I will just move on. Let them have their perfect people. No one stays perfect forever.

Gennaver, MSN · Jun 25, 2006

My mother and I had this conversation (she in her 70's). This may be off track, if so please ignore. America is a culture that values youth. One only has to look at magazines and advertisements. Sure they want all that knowledge and education, but they want it in a 20 something year old. And she better be nice looking too. The right weight, height and look like the girl next door. I had honestly hoped that nursing would be different, and that is why I am pursuing it. I can guarantee that your patient does not care what you look like as long as he/she is getting their care. It would appear the only individuals that care are HR. If I experience discrimination, I will just move on. Let them have their perfect people. No one stays perfect forever.

Hi there,

I like your response...no one stays perfect forever is the truth.

If I may take this opportunity to unload something that didn't sit right with me that a patient said not too long ago.

First though, even though I may be mistaken for much younger at times, (not really certain why though) I am 40 years old, tall, slim and with light brown hair. MY new department does have quite a bit of new nurses and sure, many of them are slim, (youth), midwestern and sure do look like the girls next door.

I went in to a patient's room to answer her light and she said, "oh my god, everyone here is young, slim and pretty, they must only hire that here!" It was not said in a complimentary tone at all. My reply was just a gentle, "oh, what a coincidnece, thank you though, I am 40".

It had bothered me, possibly because I had noticed myself that nearly the whole crew was so young and I had grown accustomed to working with nurses who not new grads or under 25! Yet, this department had less than a handful of nurses over 30 and even less with more than 5 years exp, it seemed that it also had at least 4 nurses who were new grads! (I am not longer at this unit though, I resigned until I complete my degree, I notice a great, great difference being a CNA or PCT under a nurse with >5 years exp and one who is a new grad, let alone one who is barely over 20-on the "whole" though and a terrible blanket statement, no thanks!!)

Gen-

kukukajoo, LPN · Jun 25, 2006

Wow, It is unfortunate that this would be happening anywhere! The company I work for is amazing- we have several nurses over 60, and even one that just turned 80 last week!!!

I am a bit confused by the OP's remark that he was told he was unqualified for the internships based on not being fresh out of school but still insisting that it has to do with age?

Are you certain that it is not an attitude that you are portraying, such as that you are the best?

Sometimes it is best to be humbe. Advanced degrees in another field, although impressive, may not be what makes you more qualified and may not even be taken into consideration. Also, if you have many gaps in your resume or have continually changed careers this may be seen as a red flag to prospective employers.

Also, I question what makes you so certain that the nurses who did get the jobs were so underqualified compared to you personally.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jun 25, 2006

I gave up just short of $1,000 in pay in order to attend an internship fair at Baylor Medical Center in Dallas in October. I dressed up, polished up my resume, made a bunch of copies. I shook hands, smiled, made eye contact, got a lot of encouragement, all the managers I spoke with said they were interested in me. Looked me right in the eye when they said it too.
Let's look at what I have (had) to offer:
By the time the internships start, I'll have a solid year of hospital experience. I volunteer at a community clinic, and I am taking Spanish in order to increase my ability to care for my Spanish-only patients.
I have an exceptionally good evaluation from my first supervisor, with complimentary remarks. I also have written praises from patients, maybe 15 or so that I can actually lay my hands on. Two supervisors and a handful of experienced RN coworkers have enthusiastically agreed to serve as references for me.
I graduated with a 4.0 in nursing from a college that is one of the 7 identified by the ANA for excellence in nursing education.
I have a bachelor's degree and a master's from my prenursing days. I am a dually licensed professional (in psychotherapy). I graduated Phi Beta Kappa from the bachelor's program, which was at a well known and well thought-of nearby state university.
Interestingly, I didn't get so much as an interview or the courtesy of a letter saying they weren't interested.
Gee, could it be because I'm not a 25 year old fresh out of school?
As it happens, I'm 52. My friend who went with me to the fair is 48, and they didn't bother giving her the time of day when it was all over with either. We both look pretty good for our ages. Not that that should matter.
I don't have a criminal record, never been arrested, never have done anything criminal that would have gotten me arrested!
Anybody else experiencing age-ism in nursing? Is there anybody out there who has successfully sued over it? I'm contemplating legal action and would love to hear from anyone with similar experiences, especially if you are in the Dallas area and know of an attorney adept and interested.....
Thanks. :angryfire

Wow- sounds just like what happened to my friend a few months ago! She interviewed at Baylor in Dallas. She is a BSN and is in her 50s. The interviewer said to her- "Let's be realistic. At your age, you'll tire easily."

Of course, she didn't get an offer. She went back to her home state and got a great job in ER.

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Jun 25, 2006

Are you kidding me? An HR person SAID that? Does she have a witness?

HR people get a lot of training by lawyers - they are - for the most part, good at double speak and avoiding anything that could seem politically incorrect.

Sounds like somebody needs to call somebodys legal department.

kukukajoo, LPN · Jun 25, 2006

Okay based on the OP and now Hello's post- maybe someone needs to be calling the EEOC and have them do a little investigation. If this is happening, we should not sit back and take it. They will look at hiring statistics vs applicants and really do a major comparison and if there is a pattern, will order trainings, possibly fine them and make them prove that they are now hiring older people.

If this is going on, they need to be held accountable for sure.

I wondder how old their senior admin is and if they feel that they tire easily too!!

Almost all of our Presidents have been over 50 and heck (most) can handle that job!

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Jun 25, 2006

Here is the rub - I hear stories -

"I was too old and they said so"

"I was blacklisted by GroupOne by a vindictive manager"

"I was fired for invoking Safe Harbour"

"They laid me off when they found out I was pregnant"

"I was denied my FMLA"

I hear these complaints but when I ask the person did you follow up? Did you follow the procedure laid out by safe harbor? Did you fill out the forms and get them signed? Were you eligible for FMLA to begin with? Did you dispute the information in your GroupOne file as allowed by law under the Fair Credit Reporting Act? Did you go up the chain of command following procedure? Did you follow the rules for resolution? 9 times out of 10 - the answer is no.

So - if in fact your friend really was told she would tire easily at 50 then I would strongly suggest that she call the EEOC just as the other poster stated - and file a formal complaint. Complaining about it here doesn't fix it. It's great to hear these things here and make people aware of them, but what would be even more helpful to everyone who is also experiencing these problems is to hear what was done in an attempt to resolve the problem - in detail - and why it did or did not work.

In another thread on this board there is detailed information on how to go about addressing issues with GroupOne - several nurses have used that resolve problems effectively and that has helped a number of people. It would be great if we could start a thread of resources for just such things.