It's a Myth that it takes thousands of dollars to train a new Grad RN - page 3

by andywolfe

10,632 Views | 66 Comments

Let me begin by giving some background about my situation. I graduated from a nursing school with an ADN in May 2012 from a school in California. Academically I was # 2 in a class of about 60 students. I looked for a new... Read More


  1. 15
    Quote from andywolfe
    You may want to call a local insurance rep that deals with multiple health insurance company and ask for a quote for a 28 y.o male for a similar or same type of insurance. In CA it will run you less than $500.00. You also may want to research about the tax breaks that the corporations receive for providing insurance to you. They inflate this number so that they can get a bigger deduction on their taxes.
    The member to whom you're responding (Multicollinearity) is a second-career nurse who worked for many years in the insurance industry prior to entering the nursing field. She dealt with insurance policies on a daily basis, administered them, and knows the nooks and crannies of the business.
  2. 1
    Quote from andywolfe
    “5:26 am by Multicollinearity
    You are way off base regarding COBRA. The COBRA payment amount is the amount the employer is paying for your health insurance to the insurance company plus a 2% administrative fee to cover the cost of administering the plan.”

    You may want to call a local insurance rep that deals with multiple health insurance company and ask for a quote for a 28 y.o male for a similar or same type of insurance. In CA it will run you less than $500.00. You also may want to research about the tax breaks that the corporations receive for providing insurance to you. They inflate this number so that they can get a bigger deduction on their taxes.
    I know that I have purchased my own insurance in the past for a similar price as what I pay to my employer now. That insurance in NO way compared to the comprehensiveness of my insurance that i obtain through my employer. I also remember that I had to pay an added premium if I wanted it to cover me if I got pregnant. I had to pay that premium for an entire year before it would cover a pregnancy.
    GrnTea likes this.
  3. 1
    Quote from TheCommuter
    The member to whom you're responding (Multicollinearity) is a second-career nurse who worked for many years in the insurance industry prior to entering the nursing field. She dealt with insurance policies on a daily basis, administered them, and knows the nooks and crannies of the business.
    Dealing with the insurance companies for the purpose of selling it to consumers doesn’t tell you the true cost of providing the service. There is an inherent bias that comes into play since your income is completely dependent upon selling the insurance. Each person that you sell the insurance to, the Big insurance company will pay you a commission. Since your income is directly coming from the insurance companies itself, you tend not to question the status quo. It’s similar to what happened in the mortgage business and banks. The banks sold shoddy mortgages to consumers. The auditors were sleeping or missing in action so to speak. While the sales people paddle those shoddy mortgages to consumers. Yet, some of these same sales person had 10 or 20 years in banking experience.

    Therefore, I would believe in my own research rather than believing someone else and as I had stated earlier I can get the same or similar type of health insurance for less than $500.00.
    JulieL likes this.
  4. 0
    Quote from kylee_adns
    I know that I have purchased my own insurance in the past for a similar price as what I pay to my employer now. That insurance in NO way compared to the comprehensiveness of my insurance that i obtain through my employer. I also remember that I had to pay an added premium if I wanted it to cover me if I got pregnant. I had to pay that premium for an entire year before it would cover a pregnancy.
    It may be the state that you are in. The insurance that I am looking at has similar if not the same schedule of benefits as one provided to me by employer and it doesn't cost a $1,000 per month in premium.

    Now let me give you some details about the plan. Out-of Pocket Maximum for individuals for both insurance is $6000.00. PCP deductile is $25 for both insurance. Specialist is $50.00 for both insurance. For the insurance provided by the hospital prescription drugs are $15.00 per prescription for 1st Tier Formulary and $30 for 2nd Tier non-formulary. The self insured prescription drugs are $20.00 per prescription for 1st Tier Formulary and $35 for 2nd Tier non-formulary.
  5. 4
    I don't buy that orientation is outlandishly expensive necessarily. Compared to many years ago, many things are loaded in systems so that new hires can go through the material via Intranet. This saves the class time and paying wages per hour for sitting in a classroom. Yes, somethings still require a classroom, but a lot of it has been cutdown.

    Insurance benefits are an issue, and it a HUGE part of the hiring freezes and moving from FTE to more PTEs in many hospital over the last several years. Still, if you hire someone, in most cases, you have to provide health benefits packages. This is part of the employee's compensation. But what I've seen places do is constantly rotate people through orientation and eliminate them right at the 3 month mark, when the benefits kick in. Why do that? Well, if you are Magnet and/or looking to become Magnet, you are looking like you care about safe staffing ratios and so forth, but you are making no commitment so to speak. Also, you can still give your preceptors patients while also giving the orientees patients, and after three months, get a new hire and continue with the cycle-supply. I have seen hospitals do this where they staff so many FTEs, PTEs, per diem, some % of travellers, and then they do the ole rotate new-hire RNs through--and it equals about the same time the travellers are contracted. When you have seen the pattern over and over again, it's hard to miss, and you know you aren't making it up.

    There's a lot of stuff that goes on that no one really talks about.


    About the cost of orienting, it may vary; but suffice it to say most places have really peeled those costs back.

    Sadly, nurses are too often treated as disposable units. I mean, as they say, it is what it is. If you work in or with a place that genuinely values you and sees each individual nurse as important to the whole--where you get the love, so to speak, consider yourself REALLY fortunate. I don't think you will see a lot of places trying to at least "appear" that way again until there is a very desperate need for nurses or unless they are trying to receive some kind of PR, advertisement, or recognition. Of course, my loyalty would go to the places that maintained the love in spite of the economy and current dynamics. Finding such places now is like finding a real diamond or bar or platinum on the beach. The one's that are genuine will be functioning this way no matter what, b/c the commitment is truly built into and throughout their values and ethics. It's not just something they say or put on paper. This is determined, more times that not, by the kind of ethos in leadership and administration. If the bigger leadership will not support a CNO in making such a commitment to values and ethics, that CNO will not be at the institution for very long. Well, CNO's get a nice salary, and so too often they go with the admin b/c of the money and title. It's about real integrity though, and integrity can cost you money, power, support in networking, etc. This is why I'm not so quick to judge anyone that has been "let go" or fired. Not fitting into the culture can, often enough, mean you don't play their games--leadership's games are at odds with your integrity--and this kind of thing can be an issue from the lowly staff nurse, all the way to the CNO.


    OP, sorry you had to move; but given the overall state of California, as pretty a state as it is, right now you may be much better off.

    Oh, also, you are right. As a newer nurse, you are cheaper than a veteran nurse--and this is also part of the reason veteran nurses aren't getting jobs if they left the field for a period of time. If they put an "internship" type program in place, they can still save a lot of money. They run it once or twice a year. In the internship, you may not be entitled to various raises, however small. The new grads that aren't getting jobs need to understand that if they aren't getting positions over experienced nurses that cost more, the spaces for FTEs are mega-tightened at the particular institution--b/c they are being told to limit hiring, especially of FTEs.

    And all these companies and hospitals are waiting to see how hard the changes in healthcare coverage are going to hit them. As the economy continues in the current state, businesses will continue to limit hiring and other expenditures. But I fully expect that as more positions open up, a good percentage of them will be filled by new grads, specifically b/c they are cheaper.
    Last edit by samadams8 on Oct 16, '12
    netglow, Esme12, andywolfe, and 1 other like this.
  6. 0
    Here is a quote from National Bureau of Economic research about the tax breaks that corporations get for providing so called a valuable health insurance benefit.

    "
    Currently, employers' spending on health insurance premiums is exempt from taxation for both employers and employees. Premiums paid by employees are exempt as well if the firm has established a Section 125 cafeteria plan; roughly 80 percent of employees with insurance have such a plan. This tax exclusion is extremely costly - it reduces federal and state tax revenues by $260 Billion per year and is the government's third largest expenditure on health care, after Medicare ($400 Billion) and Medicaid ($300 Billion)."

    These are straight up Facts not my opinion.
  7. 17
    I feel like there is a lot of ignorance by the original poster and he just wants to be right. To take yourself and compare it to the rest of the nursing population is not a good idea. Just because you are a healthy 28 year old, that doesnt mean every other nurse is. My fiance is 27 and her previous policy that went Cobra while switching jobs was $800/month. Her current employer pays $700/month and she pays nothing out of pocket. Cobra insurance numbers are not made up.

    Your example of 6 weeks of training is a very low figure. My hospital does 10-12 weeks for most new grads in easier departments such as med/surg. Our critical care staff is 16-20 weeks. They also have to farm out some of their education to other hospitals as they dont have the full critical care educators in house. Combined with turn over rates, healthcare, 401k, taxes, etc. the company can spend $15-20k easy.
    Mommy&RN, JulieL, redhead_NURSE98!, and 14 others like this.
  8. 0
    Part of it depends on what kind of training you get and what setting you work in. Like 8mpg explained above, I had a relatively short (compared to some new grad RNs) 12 week orientation in a high acuity ICU. Some ICU RNs I know at other hospitals were on orientation for 6-9 months with a preceptor FT.

    Just in my preceptor's pay alone, that probably ran them between 15-25k. They also had to pay to have us take critical care courses, classes in e.g. ventilator, balloon pump, and dialysis management.

    There were about 6 of us on new grad orientation between June 2009 and December 2009... I'm sure it cost over 200-300k when all was said and done. Not exactly chump change.
  9. 11
    The Costs and Benefits of Nurse Turnover: A Business Case for Nurse Retention..

    Table 1. Nurse Turnover Cost
    • Advertising and recruitment
    • Vacancy costs (e.g., paying for agency nurses, overtime, closed beds, hospital diversions, etc.)
    • Hiring
    • Orientation and training
    • Decreased productivity
    • Termination
    • Potential patient errors, compromised quality of care
    • Poor work environment and culture, dissatisfaction, distrust
    • Loss of organizational knowledge
    • Additional turnover



    Decrease New Graduate Nurse Orientation Costs ... - Nursing Center

    Direct Recruiting Costs

    Advertising
    Agency fees
    Referral fees
    Signing bonuses
    Travel expenses
    Testing/profiling costs

    Indirect Recruiting Costs

    Interviewing costs (time)
    Employee training (to interview)
    Travel expenses

    Productivity and Training
    Cost to fill in for lost employees
    Other employees time
    Training/orientation costs
    Seminars/conferences/e-learning
    Travel expenses
    Critical project involvement

    Termination Costs
    Exit interviewing costs (time)
    Severance pay
    Productivity losses

    Cost of Hiring New Nurses on ADVANCE for Nurses
    Labor Costs for a Graduate Nurse in 2011

    Pre-employment Costs:

    Interviews/paperwork: $450
    Drug Testing and Criminal Background Test: $300
    Physical Assessment, Lab: $1,000

    Employment

    1 Week - Mandatory Review: $5,000

    1 Month - Classroom and Skills,
    Four Nursing Educators Salary and Benefits: $13,500

    5 Months - Patient Care with Preceptor
    • GN Salary and Benefits (1 GN):$27,000
    • Preceptor (Experienced RN) Salary and Benefits: $32,000
    • 1 Nursing Educator @ 1 Hour/Day/New Graduate: $7,000
    • Indirect costs - 12% (percentage of overall operating cost of hospital): $10,345

    Competency: $96,595
    GrnTea, redhead_NURSE98!, wooh, and 8 others like this.
  10. 2
    Quote from apocatastasis
    Part of it depends on what kind of training you get and what setting you work in. Like 8mpg explained above, I had a relatively short (compared to some new grad RNs) 12 week orientation in a high acuity ICU. Some ICU RNs I know at other hospitals were on orientation for 6-9 months with a preceptor FT.

    Just in my preceptor's pay alone, that probably ran them between 15-25k. They also had to pay to have us take critical care courses, classes in e.g. ventilator, balloon pump, and dialysis management.

    There were about 6 of us on new grad orientation between June 2009 and December 2009... I'm sure it cost over 200-300k when all was said and done. Not exactly chump change.
    I will say it again the last line of the 1st paragraph in my original post does state that my figures are excluding specialty nursing unit like ICU, NICU etc etc.
    netglow and anotherone like this.


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