Nurses, physicians weigh in on new doctoral nurse degree

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Feb 24, 2009

First let me start off by saying that I will be an MD in about 4 months. My wife is a nurse and we're investigating potential places for my residency, and part of that involves finding out about places for her to work which is why I'm here.
I may be unpopular, but I agree that in a clinical setting only MDs and DOs should call themselves "Doctor." In an academic setting anyone with a doctoral level degree should be called "Doctor." In a clinical setting the term "Doctor" has a very set definition by the public that assumes the completion of a very stringent and grueling four years of medical school leading to an MD or DO. In a clinical setting people equate "Doctor" with physician. This will not change anytime soon, and it's not something that can willfully be changed. I have medical student friends who have PhDs, but despite the fact that they have an earned doctorate they will not call themselves "Doctor" in a clinical setting because patients would assume that they are a medical school graduate. The same thing goes for lawyers, pharmacists, some physical therapists, biochemists, exercise physiologists, occupational therapists, etc. In an academic setting (symposium, lecture, conference, graduation, etc) all of these people should be referred to as "Dr. X" because it recognizes the expertise they have in an area. However, in a clinical setting none of these people refer to themselves as "Doctor."

I would otherwise agree with you, but technically "doctor" isn't the proper term, the CORRECT term is Physician.

While I agree, 190% that it's an assumption, but in academia, it shows that you have reached an expert level in your field.

A MEDICAL DOCTOR, has reached an expert level in the field of diagnosing and treating disease.

A DOCTOR of NURSING PRACTICE has reached the expert level in the field of patient care, the family, community resources, etc.

So why should one be allowed to openly proclaim their level of expertise while the other should have to hide it, simply due to a relatively new degree and the general public that needs to be educated?

Ego...that's the only reason.

Even physicians should introduce themselves properly in the hospital, because the patient has the right to know the AREA of expertise that you have.

I'm Dr. Smith, and I'm your Cardiologist.

I'm Dr. Jones, and I'm your Anesthesiologist.

I'm Dr. Doe and I'm your General Practice Physician.

Reason??? Because I will probably listen and take note of what advice a Cardiologist gives me about my heart more than I will a General Practice Physician.

BTW, the Pharmacists are also called "Dr" if they are a PharmD...so far, no one has argued that, and they work in a healthcare setting. They are the experts on meds, but I sure as heck wouldn't want one doing surgery on me.

Try to take away that title and you'll have a mutiny on your hands.

So a doctor of nursing practice should IDENTIFY her AREA of expertise.

...and so should everyone else that has a doctorate level of expertise.

Everyone with a doctorate degree is a doctor.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Feb 24, 2009

.....oh, and with regards to the article saying if there was a medical situation with a passenger on a plane, and the crew says "is there a doctor in the house"...is the POET going to stand up...

This is just where, people just need to use some common sense.

Of course the poet, the professor, the musician with the honorary degree, isn't going to volunteer to help.

In the same situations where they are working in a hospital...let's say you had someone with a PhD in history that decided to be a nurse...it is usually traditional, for those with advanced practice to go by title/surname when making an introduction to patients.

Everyone else, nurses, CNA's, dieticians, lab, etc...introduce themselves using their common or first name.

So, I can't imagine, if an RN had a PhD in history, what situation would occur where they would enter a room saying, "Hey, I'm Dr. History, and I'll be your nurse today."

The very thought isn't even worth considering, because I don't think anyone would do that.

cruisin_woodward · Feb 24, 2009

I have my DNP interview Monday! I am nervous. I agree that if I go through hell, I deserve to be referred to as Dr.

Kabin · Feb 24, 2009

Makes me wonder why state nursing boards went through the trouble of requiring NPs to be doctorate level educated knowing it will drastically reduce the number NPs at a time when they are so needed. I think it's a failed plan.

The other question is how the patients respond to a doctorate of nursing. Will the patient still ask for that cup of ice or to pickup that tv remote? And will the nurse be addressed as doctor?

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Feb 24, 2009

Makes me wonder why state nursing boards went through the trouble of requiring NPs to be doctorate level educated knowing it will drastically reduce the number NPs at a time when they are so needed. I think it's a failed plan.
The other question is how the patients respond to a doctorate of nursing. Will the patient still ask for that cup of ice or to pickup that tv remote? And will the nurse be addressed as doctor?

It's a recommendation right now...not a requirement.

I have a feeling that may change in 2015...as so many programs have not switched over, but some have already made the change.

SharonH, RN · Feb 24, 2009

In a clinical setting the term "Doctor" has a very set definition by the public that assumes the completion of a very stringent and grueling four years of medical school leading to an MD or DO. In a clinical setting people equate "Doctor" with physician....... I have medical student friends who have PhDs, but despite the fact that they have an earned doctorate they will not call themselves "Doctor" in a clinical setting because patients would assume that they are a medical school graduate.......... However, in a clinical setting none of these people refer to themselves as "Doctor."

This is a bogus unfounded argument. Patients are very much able to discern who is their physician and who isn't.

At my place of employment, PharmD's are in fact referred to as "Dr". They introduce themselves to the patients as such, "I'm Dr. So-and-So and I'm the pharmacist", they physicians call them Dr. when speaking to the patients and I call them Dr. when I am discussing them to the patients although I call them by their first names when not with patients. As of yet, not one of them has expressed confusion about their role in relation to their physician. Not one.

It's as simple as saying that's Dr. So-and-So your primary care doctor, that's Dr. Blankety-Blank your cardiologist and there's Dr. What's-his-face your pharmacist. The patient's get it, I don't know why ya'll don't.

elkpark · Feb 24, 2009

Makes me wonder why state nursing boards went through the trouble of requiring NPs to be doctorate level educated knowing it will drastically reduce the number NPs at a time when they are so needed. I think it's a failed plan.

State BONs have not gone to "the trouble of requiring NPs to be doctorate level educated" -- mandatory doctoral level education for advanced practice nurses is, so far, a proposal by a handful of academic nursing organizations, nothing more. There is no requirement at this time, and there is no indication that the state BONs (or, indeed, most of the larger nursing community) are jumping on the bandwagon.

BradleyRN · Feb 25, 2009

I agree that in a clinical setting only MDs and DOs should call themselves "Doctor." In a clinical setting the term "Doctor" has a very set definition by the public...In a clinical setting people equate "Doctor" with physician. This will not change anytime soon

Under this flawed logic, i guess i should start calling Phenergan Phinnigran or anticoagulants "blood thinners". Perhaps we should make a whole list of public misconceptions and perpetuate those inaccuracies for their own good. Im convinced. :yawn:

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Feb 25, 2009

- "Is there a medic in the house willing to do this?"

I wholeheartedly agree. If I were to have an MI on an airplane, I would be hoping for a paramedic or nurse- not a physician. Sorry to the physicians here.

netglow, ASN, RN · Feb 25, 2009

I've always thought that this is just more "circling of wagons" as happened with nurse practitioning onset. Hey MD's, there is a shortage of family practitioners because you are not wanting to do that anymore. Not enough money. You wanted out, others will take on that responsibility.

Kabin · Feb 25, 2009

State BONs have not gone to "the trouble of requiring NPs to be doctorate level educated" -- mandatory doctoral level education for advanced practice nurses is, so far, a proposal by a handful of academic nursing organizations, nothing more. There is no requirement at this time, and there is no indication that the state BONs (or, indeed, most of the larger nursing community) are jumping on the bandwagon.

Check for yourself but I'm pretty certain Universities in the State of AZ are DNP only now. Someone please correct me of I'm wrong, but the last grandfathered MS NP semester was Fall 2008 and those NP grads are being encouraged to seek a DNP education. This decision was made several years back by the AZ BON.

And your welcome to double quote me again if it makes your argument stronger next time. :)

KalipsoRed · Feb 25, 2009

This reminds me of a documentry show I saw a few years ago. Milk producers were upset that producers of rice and soy milk got to use the term milk in their product. They thought that the term milk should only be used with cow's milk because customers could easily confuse cow's milk with rice and soy milk due to the fact the term milk was applied to soy and rice. I think you should catch a doctor that argues against a Dr. Nurse off guard and ask him if he's ever confused soy or rice milk with cow's milk. :) :roll