Nurses, physicians weigh in on new doctoral nurse degree

[Brian]

New Degree Creates Doctor Nurses-And Confusion

All Things Considered, February 22, 2009

No one wants to badmouth Florence Nightingale, but a new degree for nurses is causing bad blood between doctors and their longtime colleagues. The program confers the title of doctor on nurses, but some in the medical profession say only physicians should call themselves "doctor."

Dr. Steven Knope is a family practitioner in Tucson, Ariz. "If you're on an airline," he jokes, "and a poet with a Ph.D. is there and somebody has a heart attack, and they say 'Is there a doctor in the house?'-should the poet stand up?" Knope laughs. "Of course not."

Physicians such as Knope say the title of doctor implies a certain amount of training, hours in medical school that nurses just don't have. Dr. Ted Epperly, president of the American Association of Family Practitioners, says that while doctors place a high value on nurses, sharing the same title could confuse-and even harm-patients.

Full Story and listen to radio show here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100921215

[Hushdawg]

If you only knew your professor as Dr. Anderson, i would wonder what you would call him then? Mr? Or just Anderson? Perhaps you read his first name in a university catalog, and by chance knew his first name was Tom. Would you address him as Tom Anderson? Would you add a disclaimer, "sorry Mr. Anderson, but i cannot call you by your true designation here..."

If you have a doctorate, then you are a doctor. It is not a negotiation, just a fact.

If the public is misled, they need go no further than any dictionary to get back on track.

I have to reiterate your point.

There is a guy I know here in the Philippines who operates a business whose client base is mostly nurses. He is a Doctor of Business. He worked for many years to achieve his doctorate and his primary focus for his doctoral dissertation was a method of how specific businesses can help medical professionals.

For a long time he would not use his title because he did not want to mislead people and finally I encouraged him to do it because he didn't work 8 years to be called "Mr."

[rlssem]

for me, those who have got enough experience can be called as a doctor...

Nurse Practitioners are somehow like a doctor, since they have undergone an extended training and education, and also they prescribe medications and treat patients so for me its just right to call them Doctors too..

[VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN]

Just to make one more distinction, the practice doctorate in nursing (DNP or ND) is NOT a PhD.

[JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP]

The example previously given about a person having an MI on an airplane...a misleading example...only begs if not leads the audience to a desired conclusion. It is most correct in this example, however, to ask, "Is there a physician on the plane?"

Actually, depending on what the physician's specialty is, you just may be better off with the nurse on the plane than with the physician.

[mom2cka]

Are physical therapists or pharmacists who have earned a doctorate called Dr. in a hospital setting? I have to say, I have never noticed or heard the term used for them, so really don't know. I know that in my hospital, PAs and NPs are referred to by first names by nurses, docs, and their offices, as are PT and PharmDs, regardless of the degree - it seems that will probably not change regardless. Not sure if in a clinic setting Mr/Ms/Mrs etc. is used for an NP/PA, though, or if that's first name as well.

[DesertKat]

I am not sure what post no 15's point is. A Doctor of Nursing Practice isn't a Doctor of Philosphy, it's true. It also isn't a Doctor of Medicine or a Doctor of Education. It is, however, a DOCTORAL program with the inferred title of DOCTOR once the program is successfully completed. Therefore, once again, medical doctors have subsumed a title which isn't actually specific to them. If they want to become anal about it, they really need to consider revising their titles to something that is actually acurate.

[Teresag_CNS]

I am a nurse with a PhD in nursing. I wear my badge with my degree on it so everyone can see I have a PhD (if they look), but I call myself a nurse. I think it makes a lot of sense to make physicians call themselves that, not "doctors."

Their profession has been very successful in convincing the public that they are the only "doctors" and that they know everything, from how to feed a newborn to how to exercise after a heart attack. They do not, and should not pretend to.

[RochesterRN-BSN, BSN, RN]

I agree that MDs might clear up this issue by referring to themselves as physician. This would start things-- but we as nurses are in the habit as referring to them as "the doctor" as well--a habit. If we can do our part and start calling them the physician--directly to the MD him/her self--, and referring to them as the physician when talking to patients.....from there maybe it will fall onto the community....as the community needs to change this as well.

I think people realize that there are lots of doctors out there that are not medical doctors but it is just a habit to connect MD/physician with the word doctor.

[BabyLady, BSN, RN]

I would not call my professor or someone with a doctorate in ___fill in the blank___ "doctor" in a clinical setting as to me (and the general public) doctor, in a hospital setting, refers to physician. It is misleading to the public, staff and does not seem to serve a true purpose except to ... ???

There are state BONs that already have standards to NOT use the term doctor in the workplace.. or others that require doctor to be addressed something like, Doctor of nursing... as they realize it is confusing.

Quote your source on that.

Individual facilities have policies on that...and they should, but I don't believe any BON's do.

The job of the BON is to elevate the profession, not tear it down, so I seriously doubt they are going to go so far as to issue a policy on that...they are going to leave that up to the individual professionalism of the person carrying the title or the facility that employs/contracts them.

[Hallm_7]

First let me start off by saying that I will be an MD in about 4 months. My wife is a nurse and we're investigating potential places for my residency, and part of that involves finding out about places for her to work which is why I'm here.

I may be unpopular, but I agree that in a clinical setting only MDs and DOs should call themselves "Doctor." In an academic setting anyone with a doctoral level degree should be called "Doctor." In a clinical setting the term "Doctor" has a very set definition by the public that assumes the completion of a very stringent and grueling four years of medical school leading to an MD or DO. In a clinical setting people equate "Doctor" with physician. This will not change anytime soon, and it's not something that can willfully be changed. I have medical student friends who have PhDs, but despite the fact that they have an earned doctorate they will not call themselves "Doctor" in a clinical setting because patients would assume that they are a medical school graduate. The same thing goes for lawyers, pharmacists, some physical therapists, biochemists, exercise physiologists, occupational therapists, etc. In an academic setting (symposium, lecture, conference, graduation, etc) all of these people should be referred to as "Dr. X" because it recognizes the expertise they have in an area. However, in a clinical setting none of these people refer to themselves as "Doctor."

[Mr Ian]

I'm kinda sick of this Spartacus debate as to ownership of the Dr title.

The stewardess should be calling for "anyone with a basic medical degree in the house who insists on being called 'doctor' for it?"

Truth is "Doctors" are not even academically qualified to have the title. It is conferred on a historical basis. They should shut up.

Physicians need to step down from their arrogance and re-educate the public to not use the term 'doctor'

- "Is there a medic in the house willing to do this?"

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

My mom is a retired teacher but went back and got her paralegal degree when we moved to an area that was not hiring teachers. One of her professors has a PhD in law and she referred to him at Dr. X. If a nurse earns a DNP then by all means she/he has earned the ability to say she/he is a "doctor of nursing..." just like medical doctors have the right to call themselves "medical doctors"...just as my mother's professor earned the right to call himself "doctor of law"...