DNP vs MD

Specialties Doctoral

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What is the difference between DNP and MD? How long does it take to become a DNP if you already have BSN degree? I thought nurses had problems with docs, but one day I visited the student doctor website and I was surprised to see how many student docs, docs, pharmacists were against the DNP program/degree and some did not have any respect for nurses. Many had horrible things to say about nursing and nurses, they said it's easy to become a nurse and not a lot of training is required. One person said, "lets face it, doctors can survive without nurses and they can have a resident do what nurses do, but if the hospital takes the doctors out the nurses will struggle and the hospital will die."

Do doctors forget that nurses are the largest group of healthcare? Doctors are never there to see the condition of their patients, they don't know if the meds are doing what they are supposed to do. Nurses are the ones that know the patients better and they let the docs know what is going on.

Some said," if nurses want to be called doctors they should go to medical school and not attending a new program DNP. To be a doctor they need more years of school." I swear some people think that years of school predict intelligence, years of school make you a better nurse, doctor, etc. Really, what's the difference in school years between DNP and MD ?

It's becoming a big war b/w nurses and doctors. Let's face it, one can't work without the other. They both need each others help.

That sounds like a philosophical question to me. What is the difference between the practice of nursing and the practice of medicine?

You apparently know the answer because you seem to indicate that the DNP/NP indi practice push does not cross the line into medicine.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Then what exactly do they practice? You see your own patients, you order your own tests, you make your own diagnosis, you order your own treatment modalities and you do your own follow up. All this without any physician input whatsoever in some areas. This sounds precisely like medicine to me.

In addition nursing course works is very different from even the undergrad coursework required of physicians. I wanted to take some upper level chemistry but have to take additional calculus to get into the year long calculus based physics course to get into the chemistry.

Please don't flame me..........A DNP is having a PhD in nursing practice, right? and a NP is a masters and they have to test to obtain a license to practice,right? So, having the DNP, That in and of itself does not make them an ANP, does it? Just because you have a Phd in theory does not make you a Nurse Practioner or does it?

Just to make this debate worse but where does the PA fit in all this...........in the northeast I have seen PA's perform surgery removing the saphenous vein grafts right next to the surgeon and handle the care post op while the surgeon goes home.......:confused: I am really confused

Please don't flame me..........A DNP is having a PhD in nursing practice, right? and a NP is a masters and they have to test to obtain a license to practice,right? So, having the DNP, That in and of itself does not make them an ANP, does it? Just because you have a Phd in theory does not make you a Nurse Practioner or does it?

Just to make this debate worse but where does the PA fit in all this...........in the northeast I have seen PA's perform surgery removing the saphenous vein grafts right next to the surgeon and handle the care post op while the surgeon goes home.......:confused: I am really confused

I am not flaming anybody and there is nothing personal here. At the end of the day I'd go out for a beer or soda in my case with the people who disagree with me. Nothing personal, but I am going voice my opinion regarding this whole DNP mess.

The DNP is considered a clinical doctoral degree, it is not the same as a PhD. The DNP is a NP. From what I can tell, the DNP is a tool that help ensure additional freedom of practice and reimbursement. The PA is different because they are required to have a physician relationship. In some areas NP's do not need any type of relationship to practice whatever it is they want to call it (medicine, advanced nursing, etc).

Specializes in adult ICU.
The DNP is considered a clinical doctoral degree, it is not the same as a PhD. The DNP is a NP. From what I can tell, the DNP is a tool that help ensure additional freedom of practice and reimbursement. The PA is different because they are required to have a physician relationship. In some areas NP's do not need any type of relationship to practice whatever it is they want to call it (medicine, advanced nursing, etc).

No, no, no. Not true. Please do your research!

Yes, DNP is a clinical doctorate. NOT ALL DNPS ARE NURSE PRACTITIONERS. They are not even all APNs. CRNAs and NPs are going away from being MSN prepared to doctorally prepared. It does not change their scope of practice or their role. This is a similar transition as when RPh's went to PharmD's and MPTs went to DPTs.

There are also MANY non-APN DNP programs out there. The DNP is a terminal degree in nursing as much as the PhD is, it is just practice-focused as opposed to research-focused. Non-APN DNPs go through a lot of coursework in health policy, organizational leadership, advanced stats and analytical methods, advanced theory, and spend a significant period of time doing a practicum as well.

Apparently this Mundinger person at Columbia is trying to make DNP level NPs equal to doctors, which will never happen, as their licensure and role hasn't changed. I do think that NPs in the future will not be required to practice under a physician in some practice areas (some states are already doing this), but that doesn't mean that they are even going to be qualified to do surgery, etc. etc. Some things will always be left in an MD role (for good reason) -- NPs are not educated to that level.

Specializes in Cardiology and ER Nursing.
I am not flaming anybody and there is nothing personal here. At the end of the day I'd go out for a beer or soda in my case with the people who disagree with me. Nothing personal, but I am going voice my opinion regarding this whole DNP mess.

The DNP is considered a clinical doctoral degree, it is not the same as a PhD. The DNP is a NP. From what I can tell, the DNP is a tool that help ensure additional freedom of practice and reimbursement. The PA is different because they are required to have a physician relationship. In some areas NP's do not need any type of relationship to practice whatever it is they want to call it (medicine, advanced nursing, etc).

The DNP is designed to replace the masters level degree as the entry level degree for advanced practice. Nurses are already practicing in advanced roles. I don't see how increasing the educational requirements to fulfill those roles is a bad thing.

The DNP is designed to replace the masters level degree as the entry level degree for advanced practice. Nurses are already practicing in advanced roles. I don't see how increasing the educational requirements to fulfill those roles is a bad thing.

It's not the additional education that bothers me.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
It's not the additional education that bothers me.

What is it that bothers you, then?

The DNP is designed to replace the masters level degree as the entry level degree for advanced practice. Nurses are already practicing in advanced roles. I don't see how increasing the educational requirements to fulfill those roles is a bad thing.

The thing is, though, that a lot of us don't see how it's necessarily a good thing, given that advanced practice nurses educated in the current MSN-level model of preparation have been providing safe, competent, effective care within our various roles and scopes of practice for decades now without any problems or controversy. Many of us have been looking at some of the DNP curricula "out there" now and wondering just how they constitute an improvement over the existing MSN curricula.

Fribblet,

I agree with everything you say too (even tho it's disgusting..:D).

This all has to be fine-tuned and fast for everybody's sake. The other "battles" are never gonna get the level of upset that the "mid-level"/MD battle gets. You got your, "It takes special DNA to be an MD", "God-selected me to...." histrionics. Well, you know what I mean.

god selected MD's? wow, I never received that memo!!!

god selected MD's? wow, I never received that memo!!!

Many of them obviously did ... :lol2:

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I am not flaming anybody and there is nothing personal here. At the end of the day I'd go out for a beer or soda in my case with the people who disagree with me. Nothing personal, but I am going voice my opinion regarding this whole DNP mess.

The DNP is considered a clinical doctoral degree, it is not the same as a PhD. The DNP is a NP. From what I can tell, the DNP is a tool that help ensure additional freedom of practice and reimbursement. The PA is different because they are required to have a physician relationship. In some areas NP's do not need any type of relationship to practice whatever it is they want to call it (medicine, advanced nursing, etc).

Thank you...........I really did not know :)

ignore this post!

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